NFL players: height and weight over time • Hacker News Board

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#81

Post by Steko » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:27 PM UTC

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #19

chiph wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

William "The Fridge" Perry was probably the inspiration for the absolutely huge linesmen of today. That separation started a little bit after his seasons with The Bears. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Perry_(American_footbal...

Probably not as much as you think, because he really wasn't that good of a football player and made his name as a situational fullback. The Cowboys offensive lines of the early 90s are probably the blueprint for the current NFL offensive lines. Those guys were freaking enormous compared to the average line, and it's the main reason why Emmitt Smith is a household name.

The Cowboys themselves were modeled after the Hogs and Giants offensive lines of the 80's. The competing archtype in the late 80's early 90's was the lighter, more agile offensive lines of the 49ers.

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#82

Post by markdown » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:27 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #68

skierscott wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malcolm Gladwell has looked at this issue[1]. He sees football as being analogous to dogfighting. Popular at the time and with fans, but the science behind it is scary. I've experienced a severe traumatic brain injury (sTBI), meaning I've seen many brain doctors. I have seen a neuro-omptomolgist (brain-eye doctor) who sees a football player who can't even add up his checkbook (meaning he can't add, not this his check…

Nice anecdotes. Your comments and links are good at triggering fear, but the data doesn't back you up that football is an usually dangerous sport. Women's soccer has a higher rate of concussions than men's football at the collegiate level, and it has 75% of the rate at the high school level [1]. Similarly, men's college soccer has a higher rate than high school football. In fact, football is higher than the average s…

This doesn't make sense.

You're saying that Football (where hitting another player is illegal) is as dangerous as American Football, where hitting another player with the full weight of your body at high momentum is the point of the game for most positions.

Does not compute.

From the study you linked to:

> Contact with another person was the risk factor responsible for most concussions among high school athletes.

You could play an entire season of Football without ever coming into contact with another player. Unless you were a Marvel superhero, that wouldn't be possible in American Football.

I skimmed the study you linked to an the conclusion was merely that Football and American Football had the highest rates of concussion... compared to what... track and field athletics? DUH!!

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#83

Post by guelo » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:31 PM UTC

Seems like they don't have any use for 280 pounders nowadays.

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#84

Post by markdown » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:35 PM UTC

torbit wrote: post #64

Anytime I see a post about football I wonder how it is different from rugby, so I'll just post this intresting article "In rugby, the only collision (i.e., running at speed for the purpose of forcing a player to the ground) is when one has the ball. The other 29 lads on the pitch are there for support. In American football, 21 of the 22 players had better be colliding with someone on every down - at full speed. In gr…

Another factor is the lack of a helmet and padding. Because of this, players are much more careful when tackling. Eg:

* NEVER leading with the head, which is quite common in American Football

* There must be an attempt to wrap your arms around the player. Not doing so is a shoulder charge, and illegal.

* High tackles (above the shoulders) are illegal and can result in yellow or red card depending on severity.

* Spear tackles (picking the player up and driving him into the ground head-first) are grounds for a red card.

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#85

Post by Zelphyr » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:40 PM UTC

ry0ohki wrote: post #61

Zelphyr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll never let my children play football. I wish more people had this attitude.

Or Hockey or Soccer? Concussions are common in many sports, soccer which is considered a "safe" alternative to football has the second highest rate. Also not unlikely to occur in Basketball or Baseball.

I think the general overemphasis on sports in this country (are other countries as bad?) is ridiculous. Resulting in things like parents getting into fights over it. And parents ignoring doctors recommendations to pull the child out because of a concussion ("But they need to get back in the game!" "My son is no quitter!"). Its just insane. Is it really that important that you be the best at throwing a fucking ball around?

Me personally, I'd rather be the best at creating something.

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#86

Post by bergerjac » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:41 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #83

Seems like they don't have any use for 280 pounders nowadays.

too heavy for a TE, too light for an OL/DL

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#87

Post by leoc » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:43 PM UTC

deathhand wrote: post #59

jleader wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few people who do neuropsychological testing (testing IQ, various kinds of memory, spatial reasoning, attention, and so on). Some college athletes are now getting "before" tests, as a baseline to evaluate the severity of damage after any subsequent concussion. One tester says she's seen players attempt to do poorly on the "before" tests, so they'll be able to keep playing even after a concussion impairs thei…

Why can't one sell their the cognitive ability if they choose to? If the player is "smart" enough to cheat the test then ultimately it is their choice. Society has deemed their muscles more valuable then their intelligence and I don't think we would be turning towards them for their thoughts on optimizations for database wrappers.

Well, it depends. If you believe that Armin Meiwes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes is wrongly imprisoned and must be released, then sure; you also win the who's-the-most-consistent-libertarian contest. On the other hand, if you believe that humans possess certain unalienable (which means not revokable, and not relinquishable, even voluntarily) rights, then the fact that the football players are volunteering for brain damage is not necessarily enough to make it okay.

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#88

Post by johnchristopher » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:48 PM UTC

deathhand wrote: post #59

jleader wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few people who do neuropsychological testing (testing IQ, various kinds of memory, spatial reasoning, attention, and so on). Some college athletes are now getting "before" tests, as a baseline to evaluate the severity of damage after any subsequent concussion. One tester says she's seen players attempt to do poorly on the "before" tests, so they'll be able to keep playing even after a concussion impairs thei…

Why can't one sell their the cognitive ability if they choose to? If the player is "smart" enough to cheat the test then ultimately it is their choice. Society has deemed their muscles more valuable then their intelligence and I don't think we would be turning towards them for their thoughts on optimizations for database wrappers.

Not ranting:

I don't want to live in a society where people are told it's okay to have their bodies destroyed to get a living (or a scholarship) or to satisfy the market (for a prestigious football team that sell tickets). We shouldn't strive for that.

Ranting:

> Why can't one sell their the cognitive ability if they choose to? If the player is "smart" enough to cheat the test then ultimately it is their choice.

That's a catch-22. If they were smart, they wouldn't sell their cognitive ability.

> Society has deemed their muscles more valuable then their intelligence and I don't think we would be turning towards them for their thoughts on optimizations for database wrappers.

So when the economy isn't good we should sell our organs because society deemed our body parts more valuable than our well being ?

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#89

Post by girvo » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:52 PM UTC

markdown wrote: post #84

torbit wrote: post #64

Anytime I see a post about football I wonder how it is different from rugby, so I'll just post this intresting article "In rugby, the only collision (i.e., running at speed for the purpose of forcing a player to the ground) is when one has the ball. The other 29 lads on the pitch are there for support. In American football, 21 of the 22 players had better be colliding with someone on every down - at full speed. In gr…

Another factor is the lack of a helmet and padding. Because of this, players are much more careful when tackling. Eg: * NEVER leading with the head, which is quite common in American Football * There must be an attempt to wrap your arms around the player. Not doing so is a shoulder charge, and illegal. * High tackles (above the shoulders) are illegal and can result in yellow or red card depending on severity. * Spear…

I'm an ex referee, used to ref first grade club and schoolboy rugby in SEQ. I've seen first hand why those rules are in place. I will disagree with having the ball being the only collision points however: rucks, mauls and scrums (the latter of which are neutered now) involved any number of players but still don't quite compare to the one on one that NFL involves. Fascinating sports IMO :)

Re: NFL players: height and weight over time

#90

Post by jessriedel » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 11:29 PM UTC

markdown wrote: post #82

jessriedel wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice anecdotes. Your comments and links are good at triggering fear, but the data doesn't back you up that football is an usually dangerous sport. Women's soccer has a higher rate of concussions than men's football at the collegiate level, and it has 75% of the rate at the high school level [1]. Similarly, men's college soccer has a higher rate than high school football. In fact, football is higher than the average s…

This doesn't make sense. You're saying that Football (where hitting another player is illegal) is as dangerous as American Football, where hitting another player with the full weight of your body at high momentum is the point of the game for most positions. Does not compute. From the study you linked to: > Contact with another person was the risk factor responsible for most concussions among high school athletes. You…

My understanding is that the concussions in soccer come from direct head-to-head collisions (which are not cushioned by helmets) and from heading the ball (which is moving significantly faster than a human being). The fact that you find the similar concussion rates between these two sports surprising is good reason for you to doubt your ability to identify dangerous sports based on your intuition for how violent they are.