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Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

america.aljazeera.com

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Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#131

Post by JoeAltmaier »

indrax wrote: post #53
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its clearly a knee-jerk reaction to unfortunate events. But consider: Farms cannot be reasonably secured. Can't prove 'breaking and entering' when all you have to do is park and walk, maybe cross a fence. So they would need some special rules to make them private space at all.

Of course you can't prove breaking and entering if that is not what was done. "Can't be secured" means only that they want a large space free from scrutiny without paying to properly secure it. This is like legislating to make URL modification illegal 'hacking' and justifying it by saying programmers are too expensive. If our society wants people to have stronger protection for large unsecured areas, they it should a…

Aren't farms about it? What else? National parks? They already have special rules.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#132

Post by JoeAltmaier »

nknighthb wrote: post #100
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A farm is Somebody's house. I live on one for instance. While we don't torture animals, keep your cameras out of my space anyway thank you.

For someone who doesn't torture animals, you're awfully worried about somebody seeing how you treat them. Your farm is not a house, it is a farm. A house that might happen to sit on the same land parcel is of absolutely no interest to anyone. Your private life simply is not that interesting. Your commercial operations, which occur outside the house, are an entirely different matter.

Yeah the old "If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about" argument. Used by everybody since the SS. And now the NSA.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#133

Post by classicsnoot »

matthewsimon wrote: post #105
classicsnoot wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DISCLAIMER/DISCLOSURE: i am not a lawyer. i am a near radical animal rights couchtavist. Aren't there Federal statutes that lay out what animal abuse is? I know the Law views animals as property, but in regards to dogs,cats, etc. there are rules about how you treat them. Do bovine, equine, and poultry animals not fall under these protections? Obviously i could be completely off base...

The federal Animal Welfare Act specifically does not apply to farm animals, and many state statutes also make specific exceptions for agricultural operations. Cf. http://awic.nal.usda.gov/farm-animals

Thank you for teh link.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#134

Post by nknighthb »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #132
nknighthb wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone who doesn't torture animals, you're awfully worried about somebody seeing how you treat them. Your farm is not a house, it is a farm. A house that might happen to sit on the same land parcel is of absolutely no interest to anyone. Your private life simply is not that interesting. Your commercial operations, which occur outside the house, are an entirely different matter.

Yeah the old "If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about" argument. Used by everybody since the SS. And now the NSA.

If you're worried about farm operations being recorded, you really must be hiding something. There is no privacy interest here, it's a commercial workplace subject to regulation and inspection, and this is one of the reasons. If you're doing it right, you should welcome the scrutiny as a competitive advantage.

Instead, you're so deathly afraid of it that you think you need to apply something even stronger than the extraordinary privacy protections afforded to homes to your place of employment by criminally punishing your employees for gathering evidence of your wrongdoing.

That is an insane leap unknown to the American legal tradition. You simply do not have a legitimate interest in preventing lawfully-present individuals from reporting your illegal activities.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#135

Post by valleyer »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #91
valleyer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you mean by "thuggery" here. Can you explain?

1. Trespassing is already a crime. 2. Trespassing here could uncover more serious crimes that are happening. 3. Somebody lobbied a bunch of politicians to make trespassing a very serious offense to deter people from uncovering a more serious crime. Part 3 is the thuggery.

OK. "Thuggery" seems like a strange way to describe that though since there's no violence involved.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#136

Post by JoeAltmaier »

nknighthb wrote: post #101
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its clearly a knee-jerk reaction to unfortunate events. But consider: Farms cannot be reasonably secured. Can't prove 'breaking and entering' when all you have to do is park and walk, maybe cross a fence. So they would need some special rules to make them private space at all.

> Farms cannot be reasonably secured. Correct, it is an inherently non-private location, and therefore not entitled to any "privacy".

Private property is illegal to put under surveillance, right? That's privacy.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#137

Post by nknighthb »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #136
nknighthb wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Farms cannot be reasonably secured. Correct, it is an inherently non-private location, and therefore not entitled to any "privacy".

Private property is illegal to put under surveillance, right? That's privacy.

No, wrong. Utterly wrong. "Private property" means "not owned by the public", not "hidden from view". Where do you get your ideas on the law? They have no resemblance to reality whatsoever.

Anyone can put under surveillance anything visible from anywhere they're allowed to be. Kids, cats, and cops alike, no permission, no warrants, nothing.

Re: Idaho law criminalizes secretly filming on farms

#138

Post by cscurmudgeon »

valleyer wrote: post #135
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Trespassing is already a crime. 2. Trespassing here could uncover more serious crimes that are happening. 3. Somebody lobbied a bunch of politicians to make trespassing a very serious offense to deter people from uncovering a more serious crime. Part 3 is the thuggery.

OK. "Thuggery" seems like a strange way to describe that though since there's no violence involved.

I agree. I couldn't think of any word close enough. I was thinking more in terms of the original meaning of "thuggery"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

A band of organized criminals.

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