Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A culture of beer and overtime

jayhuang.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 212 posts

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#131

Post by paganel »

vinceguidry wrote: post #29

What in the world? I don't see how anybody tolerates this crap. I wouldn't have lasted a week there. And you better believe there'd be threats of legal action on any withheld pay. It's obvious to me that they're just riding horses into the ground until they get where they want to go. I also wouldn't have put up with that "You're not 100% committed here," crap. I probably would have laughed in his face. "Look pal, unl…

I would have probably left at "Stop fucking around and get shit done". I'm far from being a shy person and I do use the f. word quite often, but never have I insulted any of my colleagues nor would I ever think of doing so. That would be so un-professional and morally bad.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#132

Post by arethuza »

coffeemug wrote: post #48
bigiain wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, or at least food for thought: How are you instilling that attitude in your company? How big would your company need to grow before misguided middle management might be appointed who _does_ think this is an appropriate management technique, resulting in this happening on your watch with you later described as a "detached executive"? Having stuff like this "never even occur to you" leaves you in the p…

This is a good point. I've never managed more than 15 people so I can only speculate, but it seems that the proverbial fish rots from the head (I'm sure I'll learn many painful lessons when it's time to grow). The startup described by the OP is smaller than our company, and they already have this problem. If we were large enough to need middle management, I would be absolutely paranoid about hiring good people that u…

"have occasional one on ones with their reports"

That sounds like "360-degree feedback":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360-degree_feedback

Which seems like a good idea but I've known of places that turned the entire process into a process that sounded like something from the Chinese Cultural Revolution - where all managers were ritually had their characters attacked by everyone surrounding them (usually to the point of tears).

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#133

Post by nbevans »

dfrey wrote: post #4

The project manager sounds like a dick, but the author also sounds like a push-over. The author had a chance to out the manager as a huge asshole, but based on the post, it seems like he just left silently.

Why would he want to "out" the manager? He already sussed out the situation for himself. He had nothing else to prove to anyone else. He was only there for a short time so probably hadn't made any meaningful friendships with other workers there anyway.

The only thing the OP should have done differently, IMO, is made clear to his colleagues that he handed his notice and that he wasn't being sacked.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#134

Post by eru »

showsover wrote: post #130
eru wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abouth the `backfill': you can also ask about length of average stay at the company.

You can, but there's no way of finding out if it's true until you're there.

Indeed. But that's true for almost all questions. (Don't just ask for an average, ask for the shape of the distribution.)

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#135

Post by throwaway1979 »

patio11 wrote: post #114
jayhuang wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Patrick, Thanks for the tip. I always find your comments very helpful. This was definitely a huge learning experience for me; probably better now than 15~20 years down the road. I too, was quite sure they would still have to pay me even if I didn't sign. I just wanted everything to be done with and never have to deal with them again. I've had to sue before, but I try to avoid it if at all possible. Funny thing is…

Glad to help. I mostly give advice like this because I'm keenly aware that when I was young and stupid I was often a doormat in e.g. dealing with companies, and despite years of socialization which had suggested to me that being a doormat was praiseworthy, things started to get better in a hurry after I abandoned my default presumption of doormathood. In your future professional dealings, and those of the peanut gall…

Sorry for being thickheaded. I want to clarify the point of contention. The way I understand it ... the company wanted him to sign the release without "any real consideration". The claimed consideration was the employer would pay the employee his owed wages. I totally understand that this is not real consideration - they owed the employee this anyways. But what kind of consideration should/could he have expected?

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#137

Post by russgray »

xentronium wrote: post #20
dfrey wrote: post #4

The project manager sounds like a dick, but the author also sounds like a push-over. The author had a chance to out the manager as a huge asshole, but based on the post, it seems like he just left silently.

Why would he even do that? Author doesn't want to engage in office politics, he wants to code. Participating in dramatic events is completely counter-productive. Also, consider whose side his co-workers would pick, taking in account whatever happened to the previous two guys.

It doesn't have to be dramatic, but I would at least have made it clear that I was leaving rather than being fired. I couldn't stand there silently at a standup whilst some jerk insinuates to my team that I'm being shown the door.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#138

Post by notacoward »

justin66 wrote: post #90
notacoward wrote: post #71

At my very first programming job a long time ago, I was criticized for not putting in enough overtime leading up to a milestone. When the next milestone was near, I worked back to back all-nighters, careful to leave copious documentation of everything I'd done and when. When the boss who had criticized me finally rolled in, I just said "where the hell were you?" and went home to get some sleep. I didn't hear any crap…

> I worked back to back all-nighters You don't think this whole scenario you've described represents a victory for you, do you?

It did in the sense that doing it once stopped the bitching. Since I clearly had both the ability and will to do such things when needed, my failure/refusal to do them at other times could not be construed as lack of those characteristics. Obviously there was a cost, and continuing to put in long hours under less exceptional circumstances would have been a very different matter, but that one time had an effect that I considered worthwhile.

It's kind of funny to look back on that now, when I'm actually on sabbatical in preparation for a shift to less than forty hours a week. Almost the opposite action, but toward the same goal of asserting control over my own time. Different circumstances call for different tactics. It's easier to refuse from a position of strength and trust, which doesn't exist when there's no record of one's ability to step up when it's truly necessary.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#139

Post by russgray »

beachstartup wrote: post #22

> One would mean I would be moving to Palo Alto, California, where I would be joining a well-known, highly successful, technology company. The pay was great, and working there would make any future job hunts virtually non-existent. in my humble opinion, the only time you should pass up an offer like that is to work on your own startup. after all did you not apply, and interview, and compete fo, and WANT the job? i do…

I think that depends on your priorities. You couldn't pay me enough to relocate to California.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#140

Post by jbert »

throwaway1979 wrote: post #135
patio11 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to help. I mostly give advice like this because I'm keenly aware that when I was young and stupid I was often a doormat in e.g. dealing with companies, and despite years of socialization which had suggested to me that being a doormat was praiseworthy, things started to get better in a hurry after I abandoned my default presumption of doormathood. In your future professional dealings, and those of the peanut gall…

Sorry for being thickheaded. I want to clarify the point of contention. The way I understand it ... the company wanted him to sign the release without "any real consideration". The claimed consideration was the employer would pay the employee his owed wages. I totally understand that this is not real consideration - they owed the employee this anyways. But what kind of consideration should/could he have expected?

I see it as they had removed the "continued mutual goodwill" from the equation, and were offering nothing additionally. (If my current employer asks me to sign something without any additional incentive, I'm not going to say no without inspecting it, since our continued mutual goodwill is important to me.)

That kinds of puts them into the same category as someone who comes up to you on the street and asks you to sign something. You don't owe them anything - there's no goodwill - there's no upside. They get "basic politeness" but not co-operation.

Sure, it might not cost you anything to sign, but you'd at least need to spend the effort (or money for a lawyer) to ensure that.

Post reply on HN