Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did you tell them you would be playing shows?
I wasn't playing shows, just road tripping.
I'm pretty sure that's the key difference in this case.
America knows everything
131–140 of 191 posts
Re: America knows everything
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
OK, but I read this as "oh that's nothing, we even mistreat our own." I think you're effectively minimizing this man's experience with an unfounded (?? maybe just my ignorance) comment about racial profiling.
Ah, that makes sense. You're right, I'm probably bringing in the wrong points relative to his experience. However, I just feel that his experience opens up a higher level discussion of America's (poor?) implementation of border patrol. Also, in terms of unfounded comments. There is a chance you haven't read this: http://varnull.adityamukerjee.net/post/59021412512/dont-fly-... Race is always complex, especially becaus…
That story is about the TSA and local police, not the CBP. Very different.
Also, a US Citizen returning to the US does not have to answer any questions (apart from the written customs declaration) and cannot be denied re-entry to the US. (Although, as always, agents may abuse people.)
Re: America knows everything
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm just a bit confused: How are an expectant Chinese mother and a Mexican migrant worker examples of the elite?
They are not the elite, they cater to the elite and special interests goals. China has 60 per cent of its $3.5tn foreign currency reserves invested in US assets. A housing program that offers green cards to foreigners who buy $500,000+ houses. How about the money going to US universities from 194,000 Chinese students. The $8.2 billion Chinese buyers spent in the 12 months to March 2013 of $70 billion on real estate.…
The Chinese elite/the ones making the rules that you refer of, are the ones buying the houses. Who can buy a 10th house a 7,900 miles away that costs 2.5 million in cash? Mark Z Yes. If your argument were true, we would see relaxed immigration/TSA because of Obama. But, this article leads me to believe that it has gotten worse, not because of Obama, but because of the system. The birth factor might be considered a thank you in a simplistic sense. The Chinese are buying up houses that wouldn't be bought/proping up the market. The National Association of Realtors does happen to be the largest lobby group.
But, the point is, in such an extreme sense as mentioned above. Someone so visibly pregnant that a blind person could figure it out isn't given the slight of day. While a German dude with a guitar is practically thrown in prison. All I am pointing out is the irony/hypocrisy. And since it is so ridiculous and happens all the time there must be an explanation. Do you have one?
Re: America knows everything
#134This sort of thing has happened a number of times recently to people I know. I'm a musician and have lots friends who play in bands and book shows, so this hits close to home.
Last month a band from Canada I was scheduled to play with was stopped at the border and told to turn around because they didn't have work visas. This group of four women in their late teens and early twenties -- day jobs at bars and restaurants, driving a shitty 1980s chevy van -- might get some gas money at the gig -- which is basically a party in a warehouse -- and free PBRs from a cooler that the bands all share. This is not the sort of commerce that threatens jobs or the US economy.
A musician I know just tried to go the legit route but failed to meet the artistic reputation standards of the Artist (o-1) Visa. US Immigration wanted newspaper and magazine reviews and proof of past shows at recognizable venues. If you're a small artist on a small label, you're not going to have those. You'll have chatter about you on blogs and twitter and facebook, you will have played at house parties, warehouses and bars, and you're on a small label website which, honestly, anyone could spoof to look legit. Nevertheless this guy is a real artist with a great record that a thousand people have bought. The shows he was going to play probably would have drawn capacity crowds at a handful of punk rock venues in the SF Bay and elsewhere. But he can't play or even come to the US because he's not "exceptional" enough.
I have a friend who is on a student visa from a middle eastern country and presently doing the exact same thing as the OP: traveling around the US with a guitar and making friends. I sent this to him immediately with the instructions: "do not ever say you are playing a show. do not ever say you are a musician. if they ask you about the guitar, tell them you're learning how to play."
As for the OP, he's just a student. He's not getting paid. Someone's cooking him dinner and giving him tips because that's what hospitable people do.
Our immigration policies treat harmless people harshly and are absurd.
Re: America knows everything
#135It's very hard to extrapolate from stories like this to know if the actual instance and intensity of abuses is increasing, or if reportage is increasing (i.e. landing on HN front page) because of folk's irritation with other aspects of the US government. For my money, TSA is right after HSA as far as FUBAR government agencies go. Seems like quality control is right in the shitter. As for solutions, I'd like to see a…
The TSA has nothing to do with this interrogation, as bad as they are; Customs and Border Patrol are the offenders, here. And this guy made a critical mistake: He announced his intent to "work" in the United States; i.e. he was going to play shows. This requires a Visa, even for nonprofit purposes, which is a silly law, but it is the law.
Yes. And the guy should have been deported for not having the correct VISA. End of story. The abusive behavior is not excusable.
Now, imagine that happened with his gf. Imagine its your gf being strip searched, having done nothing to warrant that.
For a country that's worried sick about 'terrorism', some agencies sure like to piss off people. Somehow, I don't think that's the correct approach.
Re: America knows everything
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, I'm not going to get derailed by the not important conversation that you seem to want to start regarding appropriate work visa policies. Whatever that policy is, it CANNOT include the kind of stupidity described in this persons post. No more intimidation, no more molestation, no more angry, invasive, demeaning, bullying, just plain awful treatment of anyone like this, ever again, for any reason. Frankly we need…
Just so we're clear, you're against strip searching anyone for anything, ever? So, if someone was smuggling in rare species or ivory or other contraband, the CBP should do what exactly?
If I may make an observation, you're making a reductio ad absurdum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum) argument.
Re: America knows everything
#137While I agree that this person was probably treated very poorly, I also want to point out that they were traveling for work purposes. In the United States, non-US citizens entering the country for work purposes are generally required to get a visa. There are a few (and very few at that) business exceptions to this process, as listed here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html He stated that he w…
I don't have knowledge about the US border and visa requirements and procedures. But even if he did made a mistake wouldn't it be easier to inform him before he enters the plane? And avoid interrogating him without letting him know what the problem was? The process he got ranks pretty high on the crazy paranoid side. I'm sure there are ways to solve the security and visa issues in a way that does not leave traumatic…
"wouldn't it be easier to inform him before he enters the plane?"
Do you mean, the US should open border offices in all international airports? :)
Re: America knows everything
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Couldn't they have just given him the option of canceling his shows? I'm sure he would rather have done that than be forced to leave the country.
Again, put yourself in the position of trying to ascertain if a person is coming to the US under false premises. You've determined they have. Now, at the border, under threat of deportation, you're going to say "OK, call this place and tell them no", and you're going to take that as an acceptable answer? That idea just doesn't work. Worse, it creates more incentives for people to try to come under a false premise, as…
I think there are gray areas here.
I wouldn't say this guy was here "for work" and I don't think he thought he was either. Hell, a different agent on a different day probably would have let him through.
There are better ways this could have been handled that wouldn't have led to deporting him.
Re: America knows everything
#139America's border control system is so broken that it saddens me to see posts like this that reek of sensationalism (I mean, it's Vice ) and hide the fact that, you know, he didn't have a valid visa. I'm having trouble understanding what was so deplorable about this story besides the reprehensible treatment by the officials (which, again, seems exaggerated)? Am I misreading the story or is refusal to enter the country…
> I'm having trouble understanding what was so deplorable about this story besides the reprehensible treatment by the officials (which, again, seems exaggerated)? "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Right, but Abraham Lincoln did nothing wrong by going to the play and the author did something wrong (I don't mean in a moral sense, but in a sense of 'incorrect') by going to the United States without the proper visa.
Re: America knows everything
#140While I agree that this person was probably treated very poorly, I also want to point out that they were traveling for work purposes. In the United States, non-US citizens entering the country for work purposes are generally required to get a visa. There are a few (and very few at that) business exceptions to this process, as listed here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html He stated that he w…
If he broke the rules of his visa, then deport him. Stick him on a plane and send him home. (Perhaps refuse him entry in the future, if that's what the law says...)
In western democracies, we have this notion of "the punishment should fit the crime". All this harassment and intimidation at the border accomplishes nothing useful. It is power for the sake of power. It is entertainment for people who enjoy having power over other people (like CBP).