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Bullying has to stop, now.

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Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#131

Post by Swizec »

mtoddh wrote: post #102
ErrantX wrote: post #15

I don't think anything has touched me this deeply for years. I even got a little teary (which is rare for me). A lot of this I can relate to. School was hell for me, and I still struggle to forgive the adults around me during that period who, despite knowing what I (and others) faced, failed us utterly. Of course, school is rough and tumble - but when things went too far they sympathised, and in some rare cases talke…

One thing I am never, ever, going to tell my kids is the stupid "sticks and stones" rhyme. That's just to make you feel better, not them. I agree. Part of the problem is that adults tend to hold kids to a much different standard than they hold themselves. For instance, as an adult, if I'm working in a company where verbal bullying and harassment is a problem, and HR does nothing to address the situation, then I'll ju…

> My son is only two and a half right now. When he gets older my advice to him will be to first go through all of the proper channels in case bullying comes up. Give the system a chance to work, and get some documentation that you did so. And if it does work great.

You are forgetting the schoolyard code. You never go to the appropriate channels. Ever. That is one of the worst things a kid can do to themselves.

The right response to physical bullying is to stand up for yourself. It's one of the most important lessons a person can learn - how and when to stand up for themselves.

I was bullied a lot in primary school, but I dealt with it and as much as bullies liked picking on me, they also knew going too far would hurt. A lot.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#132

Post by Mz »

digitalengineer wrote: post #128
Mz wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do not mistake kind and considerate for powerless. One of my favorite stories is of a woman who decided to walk out on a class about "empowerment" rather than learn to yell at people. One of the other students said "God, what a bitch" as she quietly left rather than take her turn dutifully berating people.

True words and good example. It took courage to step up and walk out of the group. I'm trying to communicate to her she is definitely not powerless. I used the example of a cat: Not very big or as powerful as a dog, but you still wouldn't pick it up and mess with it. She doesn't have to be as strong as the bullies, as long as they know she won't tolerate any (physical) abuse.

My oldest didn't suffer unduly at school, but was beat up for a time, unbeknownst to me, by his younger brother. When I found out, he told me he did not defend himself because he knew he would get in trouble. I told him I had never and would never hurt him the way his brother had and he needed to defend himself even if he was grounded for it, that not defending himself was worse than anything I would ever do to him.

Teach your daughter she does not need your approval. Teach her to make her own decisions, even if sometimes other people don't like it. Help her figure out how to make good judgement calls in the face of difficult circumstances. Give her opportunities to make real choices and back them even if you do not like them. Let her know you don't like all of her choices but you accept them and respect her right to make them. Do not make her dependent on being liked and approved for everything she does.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#133

Post by rplnt »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #115
kunil wrote: post #3

Kids are mean, grow up.

"Stop being raped." "Stop getting mugged." "Stop being stabbed." "Stop being murdered."

To be fair, he didn't say stop being bullied. He said we, adults, should get over it - kids are and will be bullied. So while I don't agree with him completely, your comments are way off topic.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#134

Post by baggachipz »

coldtea wrote: post #119
jerf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Your argument often ends up implicitly turning into "Therefore, we shouldn't punish the bully, it's not his fault. Therefore, I guess, well, we'll do nothing." You've cognitively narrowed your focus to just the bully and forgotten everyone else who is getting bullied. Tha…

> OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Oh, some kids get bullied at at school. Oh, the humanity. Really, first world problems of the highest caliber...

Congratulations, you're part of the problem.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#135

Post by Nursie »

king_jester wrote: post #122
Nursie wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School is a combination of daycare and training. We make it mandatory because otherwise the kids of the disadvantaged, the uneducated or the just-plain-disorganised wouldn't get a decent start in life. It also allows more people to work - someone else is looking after the kids. There's some argument to be had about what age it should be mandatory until, sure, but mandatory schooling is most definitely a good thing fo…

> We make it mandatory because otherwise the kids of the disadvantaged, the uneducated or the just-plain-disorganised wouldn't get a decent start in life. For most of the "disadvantaged, the uneducated or the just-plain-disorganised", as you put it, mandatory school attendance does nothing to solve their problems anyway, as the people you are thinking of have many systemic things running against them in addition any…

"mandatory school attendance does nothing to solve their problems anyway"

I disagree that it does nothing. Some people still get the opportunity to better themselves through education, even if it doesn't help everyone.

Schools becoming prisons is a weird US phenomenon, I think you have societal issues to tackle that are much bigger than schooling.

And it's still better to have kids given access to education under those circumstances than not at all (and without it being mandatory they would not have access. No, they wouldn't)

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#136

Post by rytis »

polymatter wrote: post #60
rytis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can they? At least in the UK you get the stupid "child rights/abuse" nonsense as soon as they try any sort of disciplinary action... Ant the bullies well aware of this situation.

Yes, they can, and the teacher can also get into trouble for not defending children too. Some bullies when they are 15 can be terrifying which is I think the real reason teachers don't confront them. The bullies aren't criminal masterminds and legal experts, they just claim foul on all discipline.

I think you're right on both points: yes, teachers can apply reasonable force [1], but as you said, teachers might not actually be physically able to restrain them without a risk.

[1] https://www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/...

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#137

Post by belorn »

ErrantX wrote: post #15

I don't think anything has touched me this deeply for years. I even got a little teary (which is rare for me). A lot of this I can relate to. School was hell for me, and I still struggle to forgive the adults around me during that period who, despite knowing what I (and others) faced, failed us utterly. Of course, school is rough and tumble - but when things went too far they sympathised, and in some rare cases talke…

Where I live (Sweden), its common to move bullied kids to new schools, because its an political impossibility to do action against bullying kids while they still are attending school. It much easier to "ask" the parent of a bullied kid to move the kid to a new school. In the extreme edges, where clear physical evidence can be collected from several years of bullying, there is sometimes a court case. Those cases is always after the kid has left the school, several, often 10+ years later.

A problem is that physical evidence is extremely hard to collect from children. As the video show, kids do get bruised by accident, and when they fight, it rarely end up in obvious fighting type damage like an bruised eye or broken jaw. If one compare it to a brawl at a bar, school yard bullying do not have a bunch of reliable third-party witnesses (yes, drunk people at the bar is more trusted in this case).

However, what about Justice which one takes by violence? It might work sometimes, but I would warn about gangs. Kids like adults have a tendency to form groups. Groups get group mentality, which can get very ugly very fast. One has to be very fast, quick and lucky to survive going up against a bullying gang leader. Sticks and Stones hurt.

For the people who made this video, thank you. I hope this will remind people, and maybe get some tools invented to start combating bullying. Being a security interested person, I can think of several ideas but I am worried about which ones might actually have an effect and which ones will only make us feel like we are doing something. Cameras and microphones is popular in schools now, and each kid tend to have a smart-phone, and yet I not heard of a reduction in bullying. Small classes is an other solution proposed by people, but I have yet to see a case where that have made a difference. Even when a teacher has time to do something, they seems perplexed on how to deal with it. Maybe if tested tools and procedures is invented, small classes will start to have an effect on bullying.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#138

Post by jader201 »

As a parent, bullying -- or any type of oppressive actions on my children -- is something that terrifies me. Not because I want to shield my children from the world and its negative impacts -- because I want them to learn that the world is not perfect, and to be able to cope with an imperfect society.

But because of the fact that these afflictions are often permanent and irreversible.

I think the best hope a child has against bullying is to have a parent that cares, and is educated of the impacts of bullying and how to minimize the risks of their child being subject to bullying.

Of course, this doesn't address the root issue -- the bully. And while we as a society can work towards educating others to help prevent their child from turning into a bully, there's obviously little I can do, as a parent, to change the behavior of a bully.

I feel that best way I can help my child not be the bully is to show them unconditional love, the best I know how, and to help them to love others. I also try to equip them with empathy so that they understand that their actions have a real impact on others, but this is hard sometimes -- especially with younger children.

However, I will honestly say that I don't feel equipped, as a parent, to help my child deal with bullying appropriately and effectively. Looking through this thread, I see a couple links, but does the hacker community have other good resources to equipping parents on how to help their child handle bullying?

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#139

Post by sheraz »

You want a real show about bullying? Watch 3'oclock high [1]. It's a fun story about hitting back.

I thought that video was horrible. Kids need to learn to hit back, either physically or verbally.

My kids will learn to hit back because that is how I grew up. I've blooded lips and blackened eyes, and I've had it done to me.

I grew up where the teachers were smart enough (and had enough autonomy) to let some of this play out. Fights were broken up and kids punished, but the penalties were not juvenile hall and a ride in a police car. Instead there was some detention and parent conferences, and often the respect of your peers.

[1] - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094138/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

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