Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dudes. This is not at all helpful. Sitting at the front of the bus just creates more of an excuse for a crackdown.
Seriously? This again? Anonymous is not Rosa Parks.
The analogy compares actions, not things.
United States Sentencing Commission website hacked
131–140 of 154 posts
Re: United States Sentencing Commission website hacked
#132[Shakes his head in disgust.] Hackers, it's time for me to hack the discussion. You and your first world problems have NO IDEA how to fight for freedom. This is the wimpy way to protest whatever it is you are protesting. Unlike most people who post here, I have actually lived under a dictatorial regime that ruled a territory that later had a peaceful transition to democracy and legally protected civil rights. Anonymo…
> The biggest problem with website-defacing movements is their cowardice (no one in Anonymous seems courageous enough to go to prison) and lack of perspective (they complain about first world problems that they mischaracterize as important problems for the common people). I think you're missing the point, here. I like what's going on in the majority of your post -- there is a lot we can learn from other successful re…
In principle I agree with what you say. In practice however I am skeptical. In my calm and rational mind, I could not possible see how defacing of a government website could affect anyone or bring more supporters to Anonymous. On that same state of mind, i would also not see how commercials could ever work, or how scandals/negative news could sometimes increase support for a political party.
Thus, my mind tells me (based on previous knowledge) that hacks like this could very well increase support for Anonymous. Maybe that is because they get noticed (branding), and thus the number of supporters increase. Maybe people in their busy lives rationalize that if someone managed to break a government website like USSC, then those people means business and are serious enough to stop and get listen to. If then newspapers make a big deal out it, people will rationalize further and consider it to be important.
I too hope however that they do publish their data about injustice and corruption. Maybe the drum beating is important to first create some hype about it, but in the end, it's the data that interests me. But I do see how the actions of defacing the site could be valuable for bringing justice and change, just by the act of creating noise.
Re: United States Sentencing Commission website hacked
#133Re: United States Sentencing Commission website hacked
#134Re: United States Sentencing Commission website hacked
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
"a cowardly act of opportunity" "just a shield for people who are breaking the law." I would (naturally) call someone who disagrees with me, and acts on it, "abusive" too (or opportunistic, for example) even if he or she thought they were acting morally; moral arguements are hollow when the morality is what's being argued over. I'm not exactly disagreeing with you, just trying to say that moral judgement might be moo…
I suspect that I'm not making myself clear enough. I don't disagree with you that computer crimes are prosecuted in a crazy way and that it's unclear that the legal community has a technical proficiency adequate to make the sorts of fine grained judgements necessary to identify "good guys" from "bad guys" (and all of the myriad shades of grey) so they tend just to throw the book at people. This is less a persecution…
"This is less a persecution than it is a lack of understanding imo."
The same could be said of the sentiment that AIDs is "God's way of punishing homosexuals"... The people "throwing the book" at geeks are coming from the same place, as you have said (lack of understanding), IMHO as the Westboro Baptist's who I would consider "persecutive" of homosexuals.
"I am saying is that the sort of crime that Aaron Swartz was accused of is not the same sort of crime that defacing a government website is."
"if someone were to say that going after the guys who hit the ussc.gov site is persecution? That's not persecution."
I felt that way a few years ago watching the start of the hactivism stuff, and I would have said it was pretty cut-and-dry vandalism then. Today I find it harder to view this as strictly vandalism in light of the larger developing context, only the most recent of which is Aaron Swartz killing himself (to name, sadly, even only the latest suicide); Aaron's case in particular stands out to me as walking the line between vandalism, copyright infringement, and information/civil rights activism, blurring the distinction (to me at least). The lack of understanding, as you put it, touches all these categories and when I compare the mandatory minimums in the CFAA to the lack of interest in banking and financial crimes, for example, it feels a lot like persecution, even if it's also (in part) vandalism.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just following my train of thought all the way to the station...
Re: United States Sentencing Commission website hacked
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Essentially it's a form of terrorism. They are saying do things our way or we burn your house down. They don't believe in democracy and so what's left? A world where the best people at malicious hacking rule? The same skills they used to do this can shut down power plants, bring down air planes, and wreck general mayhem. They are saying the people in power are corrupt. Some how we have to trust they will never become…
>> They are saying do things our way or we burn your house down. No, they are protesting events that are generally perceived as a gross injustice of the judicial system. >> They don't believe in democracy and so what's left? Says who? To me, they seem to be the very embodiment of civil disobedience (and thusly of democracy). >> The same skills they used to do this can shut down power plants, bring down air planes, an…
The very embodiment of civil disobedience? I think not. They are anonymous thugs and vandals and nothing more.
Re: United States Sentencing Commission website hacked
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> They are saying do things our way or we burn your house down. No, they are protesting events that are generally perceived as a gross injustice of the judicial system. >> They don't believe in democracy and so what's left? Says who? To me, they seem to be the very embodiment of civil disobedience (and thusly of democracy). >> The same skills they used to do this can shut down power plants, bring down air planes, an…
The very embodiment of civil disobedience? I think not. They are anonymous thugs and vandals and nothing more.
Some examples of said thuggery would not hurt.
Re: United States Sentencing Commission website hacked
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
The analogy compares actions, not things.
Defacing a website from behind who knows how many layers of anonymizing proxies isn't being black and sitting at the front of a segregated bus, either.
Both are forms of civil disobediance. Neither need cause significant damage other than to sensibilities. The number of those layers is irrelevant.
Re: United States Sentencing Commission website hacked
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I am saying you do not have a right to call it "Cowardice". HN is is located in the U.S. so he has the right to say anything he damn well pleases.
That could be interpreted as sarcasm or not. Wish you'd used a /s or whatever the marker for sarcasm is these days.
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Re: United States Sentencing Commission website hacked
#140[Shakes his head in disgust.] Hackers, it's time for me to hack the discussion. You and your first world problems have NO IDEA how to fight for freedom. This is the wimpy way to protest whatever it is you are protesting. Unlike most people who post here, I have actually lived under a dictatorial regime that ruled a territory that later had a peaceful transition to democracy and legally protected civil rights. Anonymo…
> [Shakes his head in disgust.] [Shurgs]. > You and your first world problems have NO IDEA how to fight for freedom. Flaunting your experience living in a totalitarian regime to scold those first world kids might not be as convincing, than, say, if you just skipped that part. Someone else can always trump that "well, my family members were tortured" so "don't tell me about your experience". > If you really want to le…
You watched that video and found it be credible? You are the fodder for their tomfoolery. Now I have nothing against pranks, but there is a legitimate cause here. Scientific papers from public funding should be freely available. Superhero gibberish, while entertaining, will not help.