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IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

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Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#131

Post by Shivetya »

w0utert wrote: post #114
josteink wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to be all the rage to write up anecdotal frustrations full of hyperbole about Apple these days, that's fine, but why do they have to be on Hacker News? You mean, as opposed to all the news praising every minor thing Apple does and banning all articles critical of Apple, which historically has always been the way things was here on HN? I think it's about time the tide changed, and it's probably a good reality…

What does that even mean? Is HN supposed to be a medium for the preservation of some kind of philosophical balance of power between operating systems and hardware vendors? Shame on me for thinking it was a medium to report on technology and the startup scene all along :-/ It's really sad to see how every.single.time community driven websites devolve into ideological crusades between people who can't seem to just acce…

To be honest I have seen the same happen here as on other sites. The community seems to pass through phases with its view about a company. From initial interest, near blind loyalty, to OMG WTF they are evil. This happens with individuals in tech too, though there are examples where many end up redeemed in the eyes of the community.

Apple began inching into the OMG WTF EVIL category awhile back for some and others eventually tagged along. That herd mentality that many sites develop does happen here too.

Face it, HN is a community within each community are cliques that rise and fall in their influence and that comes out in how stories and comments are views and voted on

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#132

Post by redial »

ricw wrote: post #82
redial wrote: post #14

To all of those complaining about the new Apple devices, this is what you should do. You should vote with your wallet. I don't think that you are going to change Apple's mind, but this is the only way they'll listen. Personally, I think they are to far gone by now. The money pouring in has simply been to much to ignore. It's not the computer for the rest of us any more...It's the computer for the rest of them... (I a…

The problem is that we don't have a choice. There's only one premium option to go for. And it's apple. It's surprising how none of the others have at least created a luxury brand, similar to Toyota/Lexus or Volkswagen/Audi.

Dell tried with Adamo. Vaio started out, and was for the longest time, the premium PC brand.

It's not like they didn't try, it's more like they just gave up.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#133

Post by nicholassmith »

I've been a Mac user for nearly a decade, first machine I bought was a G4 12" iBook. My Uni final year project was a Cocoa app when saying "Hey I'm making a Mac App!" got you strange looks. I've also developed on Linux for work for about 5/6 years. Sometimes, even cross-platform OS X/Linux development.

Has the situation changed and 'nerds' are no longer Apple's target market? Kind of. A bit. If you cared about upgradability and taking that machine and using it for 6 years and it being awesome then sure, Apple's changed. It's not for you. If like me you came to Apple as you had no interest in upgrading a machine, ever, at all, then they've not changed.

I still have: a built in, relatively decent Terminal. I have command line build tools (and yes we can argue about the quality, and whether Apple should be forking their own versions, but that's a topic for another day). Apple ships their own IDE & SDK for the system, to anyone, and they've done that for as long as I've been using them as well.

Apple reducing upgradability isn't them thumbing their noses at us. When they release a version of the OS without a Terminal we can all go "Well, Apple has moved on from us developers", or if they pull XCode from the App Store. Until then, it's Apple improving their products inline with what a large portion of people want.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#134

Post by georgeorwell »

w0utert wrote: post #92
pjmlp wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that many Apple fanboys never experienced the original Apple, the one with proprietary connectors and Mac OS specific APIs for video, 2D, 3D, networking .... When Apple tried to cater to the open source community using the UNIX underpinnings of Mac OS X, young generations thought Apple was always more open than Microsoft, when actually they were the opposite. Now that they are back on top with more profi…

>> The issue is that many Apple fanboys ... This is where I stopped reading... It seems to be all the rage to write up anecdotal frustrations full of hyperbole about Apple these days, that's fine, but why do they have to be on Hacker News? Why should I care some guy on the internet doesn't want a computer that isn't user serviceable, or a tablet that uses a curated app store that contains 'literally thousands upon th…

Well, if you consider that becoming the next Steve Jobs and running the next Apple is a dream/fantasy endgame for many startup people, then anything and everything related to Apple is interesting. Especially due to the prevalence of Apple hardware in so-called hacker circles.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#135

Post by knightni »

kitsune_ wrote: post #65
nostromo wrote: post #44

The ironic ending of the blog post is interesting. He's running Ubuntu... on a MacBook Pro. Even if you hate the software and all things iOS, it's hard to find a better designed laptop.

I disagree. I own a Lenovo Thinkpad x220. It's perfect (for me). Its keyboard is reason alone that it beats the MacBook Pro. On top of that, I bought it back in 2011 for around 960 USD (converted). The configuration included an i5-2520M, 8GB of RAM, 320GB HDD, an 80GB m-SATA SSD and an upgrade to a 3-year on-site warranty.

I really love my work thinkpad, except I'm not a big fan of trackpoints, and the touchpad is truly hateful. For work that's fine because I'm always docked, but I probably wouldn't consider them for personal use for that reason alone.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#136

Post by mrich »

arn wrote: post #12

What's weird is that this has been a running argument for almost the entire existence of Apple. Here's the thing though -- Apple hasn't changed. They are simply closer to their goals then ever. I'm not saying it's right. But computer as an appliance? That's the dream! In the 80s we would argue on Usenet that the WIMP interface was too simplistic, and that real computer users stuck to the command line only. Now, in 20…

I remember these arguments, they always were a bit elitist. But even today I am doing a big part of my productive work on a command line. I wouldn't want to part with the GUI and mouse, sure. But given the choice between either a GUI or a command-line only Unix I will pick the Unix system any day just because it allows automating things easily. Automation and programmability is the thing that sets computers apart from dumb devices like TVs. Many of these things can be done with the help of a GUI nowadays. But most of them cannot be done efficiently without a command line.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#137

Post by virtualritz »

czhiddy wrote: post #115
microtonal wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regularly encounter applications that are not signed. It's easy to circumvent Gatekeeper (right click, then choose open). But I can imagine that this is quite confusing for the average end user. For them, it is already turning into a walled garden.

Any user who doesn't know what Gatekeeper's purpose is (and how to disable it) probably stand to benefit from keeping it on. I imagine these people are the ones most at risk for downloading malware. People who don't want/like the walled garden can disable it trivially from the settings. For people like my mom, who clicks on any ad/link/attachment without a second thought, this will save a ton of headaches.

What about an OSS app like Darktable (which beats the sh*t out of Lightroom, in many use cases)?

None of the devs has an Apple Developer account and not one of them, understandably, is prepared to churn out the 99 USD just to be able to sign the OS X flavor of their app: http://goo.gl/gzFZO

Shouldn't a kick-ass app like Darktable be easily deployable by anyone, not just those who know how to circumvent the 'walled garden'?

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#138

Post by LinXitoW »

ricw wrote: post #82
redial wrote: post #14

To all of those complaining about the new Apple devices, this is what you should do. You should vote with your wallet. I don't think that you are going to change Apple's mind, but this is the only way they'll listen. Personally, I think they are to far gone by now. The money pouring in has simply been to much to ignore. It's not the computer for the rest of us any more...It's the computer for the rest of them... (I a…

The problem is that we don't have a choice. There's only one premium option to go for. And it's apple. It's surprising how none of the others have at least created a luxury brand, similar to Toyota/Lexus or Volkswagen/Audi.

What about Thinkpads? They seem to be Windows/Linux equivalent of the Macbooks.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#139

Post by w0utert »

shadowmint wrote: post #120
w0utert wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Maybe you should also stop stereotyping whoever hurts your Mac fan feelings. Just cut the emotional crap, it appears to impair your ability to see the point I'm trying to make. I've been using Linux and OS X alongside each other for over a decade, and many other *nix derivatives at work. I just pick the right tool for the right job, and more often than not, a Mac running OS X turns out to be the choice that offers…

The issue here is that recent releases of OSX have sucked more than some earlier releases of OSX, and it's annoying some people. The hardware is now even more locked down than ever. These are facts. Does it mean you have to stop using a mac? No. Does it mean that some people are moving away from macs? Yes. Does it mean you need to rage because there's an article that mentions 'fan boys'? Not really. Chill out. If you…

>> If you have any cognant and articulate arguments why this guys opinion (which I happen to currently share) is a stupid opinion to have, by all means, I'm interested...

Nowhere did I say his opinion was stupid, I'm not one to judge opinions. All I'm saying is that I don't see any value in reading it, particularly not in the context of HN.

The cognant and articulate argument (?) here is that the internet has plenty of places to go if you want to read rants about why sucks and why someone decided to leave for these elusive greener pastries that other platforms supposedly offer.

Everyone knows Macs aren't the most serviceable computers on earth, and everyone knows iOS isn't intented to be an open platform for all purposes power users or developers would use regular computers for. I don't think many other arguments are required to illustrate the point this article doesn't add much -if anything- to HN as a medium for the technology startup space.

Or, maybe it's just me, and other people really feel enlightened and satisfied after reading this article... :-/

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#140

Post by bryanlarsen »

czhiddy wrote: post #126
wging wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A well-designed laptop which is heading toward zero upgradeablility.

Aside from PCMCIA/ExpressCard upgrades, which are useless nowadays thanks to USB2/3, the only upgrades available to laptops are memory + disk. RAM is cheap enough where companies can toss in 8gb (soon, 16gb) without a second thought, which is more than enough for probably 99% of the customer base for as long as the laptop is in service. That leaves the disk drive as the one non-upgradable part. I imagine part of the…

mSATA is the standard for tiny SSDs.
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