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California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

the3dprintingnerd.com

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Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#131

Post by LNSY »

Gigachad wrote: post #14
mc32 wrote: post #7

Why does California since Arnold left office feel the need to regulate above the average other states regulate? [in fairness gov Brown would veto some of the crazier ideas that arrived at his desk] Why do the pols feel like they have to pick fights in so many places? I doubt there’s a majority of voters who want this.

This feels exactly like a feels good general public appeal law though. The average person doesn’t know or care much about 3D printers and is horrified by the level of gun violence in America and wants to see something done.

Which is sad, considering that we have the lowest violent crime rate since the 1950's. https://ourworldindata.org/us-crime-rates

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#132

Post by an0malous »

deckar01 wrote: post #45

I tried to photo copy a dollar bill when I was a kid on a dinky inkjet printer. It printed half way then spit out something about counterfeit prevention. I scanned the bill, printed the top half, fed the paper back in, and printed the bottom half. This can only actually stop the completely unmotivated.

Do printers still do that? I wonder if the tracking dots are still there as well, haven’t used a printer in a while

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#133

Post by jasonfarnon »

harshreality wrote: post #110
vor_ wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several snarky knee-jerk reactions in the comments here, but state assemblies pass things all the time that ultimately fail to pass or get vetoed. Now the public will debate it, contact their state senators to give their opinions...it's all part of the process.

A law like this just passed in New York State. If this fails it'll be because the tech industry expresses disapproval too loudly to ignore. The legislators don't care about the underlying criticism. Almost no legislators have ever used a 3d printer or written any software, beyond maybe simple assigned programs if they had a required intro-to-programming course. Few are "tech" people. The rest don't understand this te…

Are these laws already on the books places like Europe, Japan with strict gun control laws?

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#134

Post by bluescrn »

gpm wrote: post #37
xienze wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's one state, and the one that fancies itself as the most European in spirit, at that.

It's 1/10th the US population though, and probably 1/2 the population of US 3d printing nerds.

They can cross state lines, take a trip to Vegas, visit the casinos and makerspaces...

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#135

Post by kube-system »

aidenn0 wrote: post #30
monax wrote: post #11

Next they will ban hardware store ? Because you could make a weapon with that pipe

Fun fact: There is a law in California that has been interpreted to mean that all clubbing weapons are illegal. So if you by a length of pipe and keep it around (e.g. under your bed) explicitly for self-defense purposes, you have committed a crime. IANAL, but as far as I can tell, keeping a shotgun in your home for self-defense purposes would be fine, as long as you aren't planning ahead of time to use it as a club.…

This isn't just California. A lot of states have laws regulating the carrying of weapons, and include bats and clubs in those statutes, the definition of which often hinges on the intent of their use.

This is why many may have heard lawyers say "if you're going to carry a baseball bat in your car, make sure to also carry a ball and mitt"

https://legalclarity.org/is-it-legal-to-have-a-baseball-bat-...

I think so many people in the US are so focused on the topic of guns as weapons that we sometimes forget that we have laws regarding other weapons as well.

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#136

Post by NDlurker »

vlian2088 wrote: post #118
function_seven wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) For the vast majority of Californians, the nearest state border is 3-5 hours away. 2) those abortion bans have definitely reduced the number of abortions. Not zero, but that's a silly goal for any ban. Obviously the law is stupid. But states passing their own regulations isn't on its face.

>those abortion bans have definitely reduced the number of abortions. Not zero, but that's a silly goal for any ban. really? what percentage of Americans can't afford a bus ticket to the nearest city in an adjacent state?

A lot of rural areas don't have good transit. Even if they do, it's hours round trip. Here's an example. North Dakota has an abortion ban. Someone in Minot would need to travel almost 5 hours to Moorhead, MN or almost 7 hours to Billings, MT. Now that's not any different really than before the ban, because the only clinic in ND that provided abortions was across the river from Moorhead in Fargo. But what if that clinic in Moorhead closes? Or what if Montana bans abortion? It's banned in South Dakota, so people out in western ND, SD, or anywhere in Montana are going to have to travel even further. There are many small communities around here with no bus lines or trains coming through so they're stuck if they don't have a good car.

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#137

Post by fc417fc802 »

ex-aws-dude wrote: post #85
umvi wrote: post #28

> The required technology is not possible - 3D printers read code, not intent; they cannot tell what a shape is for. "Anthropic announces Project Disarm, a new model designed for 3d printer manufacturers to quickly infer whether the intent of an stl file is a weapon. The printer first submits the job to the cloud, and only after it's approved will it print." Not that I want this future, just that I can imagine it.

Knowing how governments do this stuff its going to be something lazy/easy to bypass like a list of stl files/hashes that are banned

To mitigate that, and as a token acknowledgement to privacy concerns, OpenMappleSoft will introduce a device side fuzzy hashing scheme whose output it turns out you can reverse to recover the original weapon schematics.

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#138

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

bluescrn wrote: post #124
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just fundamentally don't understand the idea that nobody's allowed to restrict firearms manufacturing unless they can solve complex riddles about the nature of parts. I understand that you perceive this to be a deep and interesting point, but to me it seems enragingly obtuse. Let's start with blacklisting DefCAD and iterate from there, what's wrong with that? Like, it's true that refrigerators don't maintain a comp…

How long until people get police showing up at their door because they tried to print something harmless but gun-shaped (like a light gun for retro games, or Nerf-style toys) and were flagged by the AI 'firearm detector'?

If you want to have a voice in how the regulation is implemented, perhaps you should offer suggestions for how to implement it better. That's how it works in most industries; legislators propose to enact regulation X, manufacturers respond that X would have undesirable consequences and Y would be better, and then they discuss to figure out how to best balance all the competing interests.

For reasons that aren't entirely clear to me, firearms manufacturers seem to think they're entitled to instead stomp their feet and say "no, no regulation, you have to let me do whatever I want!". I'm never quite sure why they think this foot-stomping would be at all persuasive to people who don't manufacture firearms. Again, I imagine you don't see things this way and I'd be happy to learn more about what I've gotten wrong here.

Re: California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business

#139

Post by fc417fc802 »

zerobees wrote: post #130
vor_ wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several snarky knee-jerk reactions in the comments here, but state assemblies pass things all the time that ultimately fail to pass or get vetoed. Now the public will debate it, contact their state senators to give their opinions...it's all part of the process.

California constantly passes all kinds of weird, pointless, and burdensome gun laws. There are so many of them, and they're so poorly written, that no lawyer in the state who can confidently tell you what's legal and what isn't until a court chimes in. There's no meaningful process around any of that. The only thing that's different about this one is that it mentions a technology geeks care about. But I doubt that's…

> There are no such barriers to having a robot watch all your IMs in real time.

Or your literal thoughts depending on how far we're able to push neuralink type technology.

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