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Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

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Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#131

Post by gardarh »

klepra wrote: post #102
mladenkovacevic wrote: post #33

As the resident Serb here I should point out a Wikipedia page on Mileva Maric who was a brilliant scientific mind in her own right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mileva_Maric There are even some theories that she helped him early on in his career although there is no strong evidence to support that theory. As part of the divorce agreement Einstein made with Mileva, his Nobel Prize money was transferred to her and in t…

Why are Serbs always pointing out their nationality?

Perhaps a majority of people posting on HN are Serbs but only a small proportion of them declare their nationality.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#132

Post by DanielBMarkham »

jacquesm wrote: post #130
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are talking past each other. If I knew Einstein, if he were alive today, then certainly what you say is true. Additionally, if I were trying to impeach him or his works, such as the attacks that Thomas Jefferson gets when we talk about slavery, then you would also have a point. But I'm not trying to slander the man, I'm trying to understand him. When I was a kid I used to be interested in General Patton of…

> I'm trying to understand him. You may have to simply live with not being able to. Both because of a lack of cultural connection and because you weren't there when it happened.

By this same token, we can never really understand anybody, since we never can fully understand what it's like to be them.

Getting a little deep for me early on a Tuesday morning, jacques. If your name really is jacques (which I can't be sure of) :)

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#133

Post by jacquesm »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #132
jacquesm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm trying to understand him. You may have to simply live with not being able to. Both because of a lack of cultural connection and because you weren't there when it happened.

By this same token, we can never really understand anybody, since we never can fully understand what it's like to be them. Getting a little deep for me early on a Tuesday morning, jacques. If your name really is jacques (which I can't be sure of) :)

You can try to make it ridiculous but I actually was not aiming at anything 'deep' or philosophical, merely indicating that there is a problem with the method used to gain the required level of understanding.

I think you can actually understand others, but you're going to have to interact (like we do right here) with those people that you wish to understand.

Trying to understand people that have been dead for quite a while from (very terse) writings made in a stressful situation almost a century old is a very difficult undertaking. The lack of access to the subject, the distortion of social mores over time and more things like that make this from a practical point of view very hard.

At best this will give you fractional insights into aspects of their character it will never allow you to say 'x is a jerk' or anything to that effect. There would have to be significant qualification of that statement.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#134

Post by DanielBMarkham »

jacquesm wrote: post #133
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this same token, we can never really understand anybody, since we never can fully understand what it's like to be them. Getting a little deep for me early on a Tuesday morning, jacques. If your name really is jacques (which I can't be sure of) :)

You can try to make it ridiculous but I actually was not aiming at anything 'deep' or philosophical, merely indicating that there is a problem with the method used to gain the required level of understanding. I think you can actually understand others, but you're going to have to interact (like we do right here) with those people that you wish to understand. Trying to understand people that have been dead for quite a…

Simply trying to lighten it up, my friend.

No, we can never really know any historical figure or event. The most we can do is try to learn what we can and hope that it has an emotional impact on us. If you really want a historical person to have the most influence possible in your life, you should strive to learn both the good and bad things about them -- not in terms of dates and facts, but in terms of how they thought about things.

Reading about historical figures should be an emotional experience. You should try to empathize and feel the things they felt. This is, of necessity going to cause you some discomfort as well.

Not only is it possible to say "X is a jerk", but it is necessary. Otherwise people from the past are just little cardboard cutouts in a sea of data. Fan of Plato? Then you should not only know his works, you should have a personal feeling of how you view the way he thinks about things. Yes, this is imaginary, but it's also necessary. History is not just a list of famous guys doing things on certain dates. It's something you, personally, should use your imagination to dive into and enjoy.

History is fun. People are complex. We use our imagination and comprehension and passion to drive us towards better understanding of historical figures and their actions. This is the good part.

I'll bow out. Seems like you are making some other kind of point about really knowing what's in the heart of others and judging those we may never culturally understand. That really has nothing to do with anything. I say grab onto somebody in history you admire and dive deep into their personal and emotional life. Make your own judgments, ask yourself how you would have acted in similar circumstances. Learn and respect both the good and the bad. Have passion.

Thanks for the chat!

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#135

Post by 3pt14159 »

dalke wrote: post #124
gavanwoolery wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in a modern context, I do not think this list makes Einstein sexist (or a jerk). If my girlfriend did not work, I would ask her to take care of all the chores and meals (which would probably be, at most, 20 hours a week of work). Accordingly, I do not see items A[1-3] on the list as unreasonable, given his wife was not employed at this period in their life. I also happen to be very particular about my desk area,…

I find your comment to be belittling. The amount of chores one does is inversely proportional to the amount of money brought home? "If my girlfriend did not work" is a shorthand for something else. I think it's shorthand for "sit around being lazy all day", which is an emotional decision and not the overt economical one. If your girlfriend is going to school full-time, then that's not work. Would you expect her to pu…

This is the kind of reasoning that drives me insane. When most men say "if my girlfriend didn't work, she should do more chores" that is exactly what they mean. That's it. As for studies, nobody was talking about that, so it is irrelevant. This isn't even a man vs woman thing, the same logic could be replied in reverse if I were staying home with the kids and my wife was bringing home the bacon.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#136

Post by Tichy »

klepra wrote: post #118
Tichy wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 meals a day might benefit the children, too. Not fighting in front of them is probably also a good idea. What does he propose that is bad for children?

Well, poster above me was implying that his demands were reasonable, as he is staying with her and children. If she wouldn't agree to him, he would leave and left her with children, that is not exactly unconditional love for his children and also sexist/macho.

It's not a given that staying together is best for the children. If there is constant fighting, separation might be better for all of them.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#139

Post by klepra »

Tichy wrote: post #136
klepra wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, poster above me was implying that his demands were reasonable, as he is staying with her and children. If she wouldn't agree to him, he would leave and left her with children, that is not exactly unconditional love for his children and also sexist/macho.

It's not a given that staying together is best for the children. If there is constant fighting, separation might be better for all of them.

You are right from today's perspective. But you have to keep in mind that was early 19th century, maybe seperation than was harder for wife and children. EDIT: I meant early 20th centory...

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#140

Post by [deleted] »

Tichy wrote: post #136
klepra wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, poster above me was implying that his demands were reasonable, as he is staying with her and children. If she wouldn't agree to him, he would leave and left her with children, that is not exactly unconditional love for his children and also sexist/macho.

It's not a given that staying together is best for the children. If there is constant fighting, separation might be better for all of them.

[deleted]
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