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That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

science.org

131–140 of 204 posts

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#131

I had wondered the whole time why they didn’t just pierce it with an AM rifle. Would that not have been better than a random partial failure via a crack? Genuinely open question. I don’t know anything about stuff.

Wait... how could that have helped? It's a toxic material under pressure so why would we want to vent it further?

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#132
post #83
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He never gave us a fucking manual in the first place, so who knows what He is thinking.

> He never gave us a fucking manual in the first place, so who knows what He is thinking. He did give us a manual. He very clearly says that slavery is okay and eating shrimp is a sin, and lots of other rules.

To be fair, there are a number of different manuals, and they don't tend to agree with each other.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#133
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, this is absolutely not the case. Regulations are strict, chemical emissions are heavily restricted and proper disposal of chemicals via specialized companies at great expense. Chemical companies have no need of formulating new versions because everything causes cancer under prop 65. They absolutely have numerous permits for chemicals, your claim that they don't denies reality. This case probably fell t…

That's the deep dive that I want to see. A breakdown of the policy failures that lead to this situation. Why is a tank this large of a chemical that can have runaway thermal reaction allowed in an area 500ft from residential areas? Why is this chemical allowed in an area that is considered light manufacturing?

> Why is a tank this large of a chemical that can have runaway thermal reaction allowed in an area 500ft from residential areas?

Because the tank was there first and morons came later on and said they wanted to build housing, the land was cheap and no zoning was in place to prevent someone from building housing there.

Zoning saves lives.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#134
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have read the rules are tighter in most EU nations. There is jurisdiction shopping of course. If china or wherever wants to have really lax rules, and that means production moves there, I’m not sure what the answer is. But, for this product (making plexiglass like things), I expect all the consumer production has gone overseas anyway. This is defense / aerospace, so it probably can’t move.

The answer is actually really easy, and it's been implemented successfully before: selective import taxes. You set import taxes so that they offset price advantages. If a country has shitty environmental laws, crappy labor protections, etc. then you prices that into their import taxes. That way they don't gain any advantages in a race to the bottom based on things that you care about in your own country. If a country…

But... but taxes and tariffs bad!!!

Snark aside, the widespread lack of understanding of basic economic concepts is actually a real problem. On one side, you got an utter buffoon like Trump acting like taxes and tariffs are his personal revenge sledgehammer to wield however he wants, and on the other side you got (an awful lot of) short-term rewarders who will accept just about any predictable long-term consequence for short-term "lower prices for consumers".

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why wouldn't there be passive protection systems designed in? Because the US chemical industry has been effectively unregulated for a century and can do whatever it pleases. There's a neutralizing chemical that could have been injected to stop the exothermic reaction in its tracks. They didn't have it on site. A "response team" (likely a contractor that responds to chemical emergencies) did, but by the time they sh…

Hell, it’s still amazing there was so little fallout after Bhopal.

Because it happened in India, from perspective of US public: Out of Sight, Out of Mind

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why wouldn't there be passive protection systems designed in? Because the US chemical industry has been effectively unregulated for a century and can do whatever it pleases. There's a neutralizing chemical that could have been injected to stop the exothermic reaction in its tracks. They didn't have it on site. A "response team" (likely a contractor that responds to chemical emergencies) did, but by the time they sh…

Complaining about the Chevy Cruze like that is hilarious . Did you go out of your way to pick up a particularly harmless example? What about all the other cars that kill significantly more people by design ? Like, I don’t know, any SUV or pickup truck? In that context, picking on the rather innocent Cruze seems a bit obtuse.

Shouldn't any design that is killing people, no matter how petty you think it is, be reason for homicide investigation against the companies executives?

I guess if you viewed customers as actual people the 'the dow is 50k - why do you want us to stop war crimes?' might also get a response requiring the treatment of humans with dignity.

If your executives can't kill people to make a couple of million what's the point of even being a wage-slave./s

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#138
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that it doesn’t dry out; it polymerizes, and the reaction is catalyzed by water, which is why cyanoacrylate glues will stick your fingertips together instantly but will not as rapidly stick plastics or metals together.

There are superglue(CA) accelerators sold, is that just a big scam? Because as far as I can tell a spray bottle with water works just as well.

Water but it's a bit of hit and miss that can turn soggy, better is bicarbonate that triggers are more or less instant reaction (often in baking powder in a pinch, but that's mostly a waste compared to just bicarb).

Often if one wants to make something "larger", dropping superglue, adding bicarb with a silt, blowing away and dropping another layer works fairly well (it's a bit of a brittle but still quite hard mass that is created quickly).

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#139
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having the chemical in one location doesn't make it active all over, you need to disperse it. Like you need to shake glow-in-the-dark bracelets.

Well then... make a matrix of such fuse-containers? (say every 20cm or whatever) I guess manufacturing such a matrix would be pretty expensive though, you'd need to carefully automate its production I think. It would also definitely interfere with flow of fluid in the tank.

Easy to imagine protective mechanisms in hindsight, now imagine you have to build a system for every tank of every chemical in the world

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#140
post #9

By the miraculous grace of God, a crack allowed pressure to bleed & enabled our engine company to prevent thermal runaway. A BLEVE was the projected outcome, a firefighters worst nightmare - see the Kingman BLEVE - https://www.cityofkingman.gov/government/departments-a-h/fir...

Why bring God into the discussion? Do you think he’s monitoring our lives actively? Why is he a he? Does God have male genitalia?
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