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Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

bbc.com

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Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#131

Post by cluckindan »

lukan wrote: post #59
cluckindan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like the robot thing to do. Anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany was entirely manufactured; it was the product of Gerhard Schröder and similar robots who enriched themselves on Russian oil and gas. Ironically, it is also where the so-called Green Party began.

Sure, it was all Schröders fault. It had nothing to do with for example chernobyl, where children were not allowed to be outside on the playground for weeks and where you had to pay attention where your food came from and it also has nothing to do that you still have to have the meat of wild boars checked and be careful with eating mushrooms. Totally unrelated. Seriously, the anti nuclear crowd might have not been ra…

What makes you think the Chernobyl accident was not embraced to influence European policy?

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#132

Post by teddyh »

I remember thouroghly disliking The Mix (1991). The changed new versions of the old songs were all worse, not better, and especially egregious was the change of Radio-Activity from an etherial hymn about radio communication, to an overtly political activism song about nuclear power.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#133

Post by TitaRusell »

I read once that they wanted Autobahn to be longer but sadly the limitations of the LP was 23 minutes. If only they had access to the CD! What could have been.

Still as it was it must have been a tremendous shock to the hippies of the era. It was the sound of the future.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#134

Post by rob74 »

kev009 wrote: post #24
kingleopold wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

coal kills more people, this is a fact. so with blocking nuclear lead to coal, so they indirectly supportered killing thousands, incredible stats really. who said art can't be bad for the public?

A hidden danger of coal is ironically the radioactivity of its waste, which gets put into concrete products and contribute to indoor air quality issues. The paranoia around nuclear power is tied to generational fear mongering of governments during the Cold War. The oddest part is why not use safer reactor designs; water reactors make sense for the US Navy and not on land.

Then again, if we hadn't had the Cold War and the associated nuclear arms race, we wouldn't have had civil nuclear power either, so...

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#136

Post by TitaRusell »

boshomi wrote: post #78
ainch wrote: post #11

I love Kraftwerk, but contributing to anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany hasn't been a major success. If only more European countries had followed the French example and developed substantial nuclear fleets.

Nuclear power has been killed off by economic forces; there’s no turning back. Solar and wind power generate cheap electricity in abundance, and midday electricity prices in Europe regularly dip into negative territory (as low as minus €500 (sic!) on May 1!). Modern grids do not require high-risk investments in ultra-inert baseload power that ultimately fails to find a market; instead, they require low-risk investmen…

Yeah they found gas in the Netherlands which was exported for cheap all across Western Europe.

It's not because of hippies or Chernobyl that nuclear reactors never got built. A gas turbine is cheap and simple.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#137

Post by gchamonlive »

TitaRusell wrote: post #133

I read once that they wanted Autobahn to be longer but sadly the limitations of the LP was 23 minutes. If only they had access to the CD! What could have been. Still as it was it must have been a tremendous shock to the hippies of the era. It was the sound of the future.

Honest question, why a shock to the hippies? In 69 less than a decade before there was Woodstock and the music, while not futuristic, was very progressive and innovative. All in all I think these folks might have had more to do with the hippies than anyone else at the time, specially in a time right after the world war, with the extreme anti-fascist sentiment in the country.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#138

Post by rob74 »

aa-jv wrote: post #84
ainch wrote: post #11

I love Kraftwerk, but contributing to anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany hasn't been a major success. If only more European countries had followed the French example and developed substantial nuclear fleets.

Kraftwerk killed nuclear power (Radio-Activity) and promoted petroleum consumption (Autobahn), like the true factory-idol industrialists they are ...

I think you're slightly overestimating their influence there... my theory is that they addressed all of these topics (along with others like robots, high speed trains and models) simply because they sounded cool and/or futuristic and fit their futuristic music. The article mentions that Radio-Activity only became an anti-nuclear song in the 1991 re-release.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#139

Post by cluckindan »

pjmlp wrote: post #81
cluckindan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like the robot thing to do. Anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany was entirely manufactured; it was the product of Gerhard Schröder and similar robots who enriched themselves on Russian oil and gas. Ironically, it is also where the so-called Green Party began.

Not at all, we look into Fukushima and Chernobyl as examples of what actual happens when things don't go as the advocates sell it. And naturally the radio waste is fine as long as we store it into other countries.

In the last 70 years, 600-700 nuclear reactors have been in operation worldwide, and three of them have had major accidents. You already mentioned two of them, the third is Three Mile Island.

That’s a catastrophic failure rate under 0.5 percent. Sure, the effects of a failure spread widely and can be a hazard for a long time, but personally I would want to see the same risk-averse sentiment applied to production and use of perfluorinated compounds and fossil fuels, since both of those can spread much farther and cause more of a hazard.

The cherry on top: coal power plants spread significant amounts of radionuclides into the environment.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#140

Post by TitaRusell »

AdamN wrote: post #112
Qdulf wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is historical revisionism. Anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany is rooted in the peace movement and environmentalism, with the majority of public discourse starting in the 1970s. The debate has always been about what to do with the waste. Our government misrepresented the "Asse" as a solved solution for a final repository, even though it was always only a test repository for low and intermediate-level radioactive w…

It's kind of all of the above. State and non-state actors have leveraged pretty much every movement there is to their own ends: civil rights, anti-nuclear, pro-nuclear, anti-Iranian government sentiment, pro-Iranian government sentiment, even jazz tours in Europe which were assisted by US intelligence orgs in the 20th century. It's not a 'bad' thing and doesn't say alot about the core movements - it just is what it i…

Pro nuclear comes from American conservatives. The same people who claim climate change is a hoax. The same people who hate green energy solutions.
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