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The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

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Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#131

Post by rayiner »

johngossman wrote: post #89
RickS wrote: post #56

I have trouble predicting how public sentiment will evolve over time. I'm not that young, and still and the last 10 years have left me with an absolutely blistering distrust of the 70+ crowd on any matter pertaining to positions of authority. I'd like to see ~67 and ~72 become the other 18 and 21: hard lines beyond which the law progressively rescinds the presumption of total competence. It's not a pretty solution. T…

Go look at the demographics of the last election and then tell me which groups shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[flagged]

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#132

Post by scythe »

johngossman wrote: post #15

While I mostly agree... Venice was run by very old men. It was common for the Doge to be in their 80s. Meanwhile, many of their neighbors had kings who were very young, sometimes teenage boys. Venice was the longest lasting, most stable state in Europe.

>Venice was run by very old men. It was common for the Doge to be in their 80s. Meanwhile, many of their neighbors had kings who were very young, sometimes teenage boys.

But those kings were (legally) absolute monarchs, while Venice was (somewhat) a republic. This isn't a trivial distinction. The young kings of the various Carolignian successors also tended to inherit their titles when their fathers were killed, while Venice occupied a highly defensible geographic location (a swamp) which supported institutional continuity.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#133

Post by jmull »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #73
jmull wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds dramatic, but what are we talking about here? Are you planning to work through democratic processes or do you mean revolution?

by law, then by unrest, then by revolution.

By law is how we got to where we currently are. There's no reason to think that would change. You'd have to trick all the people who are old (plus all the people who realize they will get old too) to vote away their assets, income, and power.

Unrest will just harden the people who see your cause as unjust against it. That will be a strong majority of people, so will go no where.

Revolution seems highly unlikely to succeed -- it would be unpopular and you'd have to turn much of the military/police to your side.

Frankly, I think the push of the idea of the intergenerational conflict is a con. It will not lead to anything getting better, but when people are angry and scared, they become vulnerable.

Be wary of anyone offering big, impossible promises. They'll be sticking their hands into your wallet soon enough.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#134

Post by underlipton »

lenerdenator wrote: post #21
01100011 wrote: post #14

Old people are organized and more social. I see it in my community. They run the newsletters and they host community events. "Oh that's because they're retired!" No, many of them are not. Many still work. I want the gerontocracy to end, but I'm also worried what takes its place. Gen Xers like me seem to lack some of the abilities present in our older generations. We'll probably be more equitable and fair, but will we…

They've had decades to save up the money that allows them to do the things alongside work. They also came up in a time and place that allowed them to build social relationships outside of work. Many Gen Xers and Millennials just... don't have that kind of personal time. I know several people in my circle of friends who don't want to do anything after work because they're exhausted. Bills gotta be paid, and there's mo…

>A lot of that pressure, oddly enough, comes from the necessity to keep shareholder returns high to keep the retirement accounts of the Boomers flush with cash.

This is it. The American economy has been warped by the interests of older people who are more interested in keeping the wealth that they've accrued safe than in investing in ventures that are riskier but that provide a broader and more diverse base of opportunity. When you ask, "Why are so many young people unemployed or underemployed today?", it's because cash, which could have funded the investments that stupid young people would have made in risky small businesses that employ workers with idiosyncratic or less-than-expert skill sets, were instead placed in the hands of boomers who just bought more FAANG stock.

Suddenly, those huge conglomerates are the only ones with capital, so they bid up wages and costs to keep resources out of the hands of would-be competitors. This creates a cycle of "growth" (or, rather, when the organic growth subsides, government steps in with subsidies because they can't let the largest employers and economic engines in the country do poorly).

And here we are.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#135

Post by alphawhisky »

This article touches on the fact that old folks have much more money accumulated than younger people, and this causes a large social disconnect. Maybe if we put a cap on the age for voting (i.e. no voting once you retire) then older people would be incentivized to spend their wealth, time, and energy on young people in the hopes that they would carry the torch politically. Regardless, it's obvious by current inflation of assets that these folks don't mind pulling the ladder up if it benefits them, and something should be done about that.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#136

Post by underlipton »

dzonga wrote: post #101

this problem with older people not giving in to younger ones is prevalent everywhere. professors - with tenure - they can die on the job. board rooms are visibly older e.g average age of Apple board members 68. the partners at law firms etc. now very few companies have very few succession plans. in other parts of the world even worse e.g in Africa - you have presidents with one foot in the grave tryin' to rule.

Ha, that's the way to really get Western society to rethink its trajectory. "You know, the things you're doing? Sounds quite African."

The Southern Strategy is underutilized as a tool to rebuild, rather than dismantle, works for the public good. (/s but kind of not?)

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#137

Post by CalRobert »

johngossman wrote: post #89
RickS wrote: post #56

I have trouble predicting how public sentiment will evolve over time. I'm not that young, and still and the last 10 years have left me with an absolutely blistering distrust of the 70+ crowd on any matter pertaining to positions of authority. I'd like to see ~67 and ~72 become the other 18 and 21: hard lines beyond which the law progressively rescinds the presumption of total competence. It's not a pretty solution. T…

Go look at the demographics of the last election and then tell me which groups shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Of course, when I go to my local city planning meetings and see the demographics shouting down any new housing my feelings are different.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#138

Post by WalterBright »

recursive-call wrote: post #113
WalterBright wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keeping them in the work-force is largely undesirable. That presumes there are a fixed number of jobs. Anyone can create a job, even doing simple things like going door to door and offering to mow the lawn.

Sure, in theory. But if that was economically viable, why isn’t anyone doing it?

People do it all the time. One man companies are commonplace. They come to my door now and then, selling magazine subscriptions, offering to clean my driveway, do yard work, tree trimming, exterminating, carry off junk, do estate sales for you, and so forth.

I remember one guy who had a one man outfit that replaced broken garage door springs. It was all he did. He had a trunk full of springs.

Any decent real estate agent has a rolodex of these people, who are hired to do what is necessary to prep a house for sale.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#139

Post by justin66 »

ungreased0675 wrote: post #4

Term limits would fix it

> Term limits would fix it

This is really obviously not true. The Democrats' preferred candidate for Maine's US Senate seat, Janet Mills, was 78 years old. She had never served in congress. (she dropped out of the primary when her impending loss became obvious)

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#140

Post by CalRobert »

01100011 wrote: post #14

Old people are organized and more social. I see it in my community. They run the newsletters and they host community events. "Oh that's because they're retired!" No, many of them are not. Many still work. I want the gerontocracy to end, but I'm also worried what takes its place. Gen Xers like me seem to lack some of the abilities present in our older generations. We'll probably be more equitable and fair, but will we…

Mixing work and hobbies is easy. Mixing kids and hobbies is not.
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