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245TB Micron 6600 ION Data Center SSD Now Shipping

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Re: 245TB Micron 6600 ION Data Center SSD Now Shipping

#131

Post by Aurornis »

dwa3592 wrote: post #86

We bought a 2TB Sandisk SSD back in 2024 for around $95 from best buy. Today 1TB ssd by sandisk is $166(the cheapest that i found, and it goes for $199 in walmart). Market is forcing people to become renters than buyers and there is no force countering that idea. Its a market failure that people will study 10-15 years from now. EDIT- The same 2TB ssd is now $329.99 at bestbuy.

> Market is forcing people to become renters than buyers and there is no force countering that idea.

The doomerism surrounding this topic is wild.

Gas prices have also gone up recently, but I don't see the same claims about how it's the end of personal vehicles, that the prices are never coming down, or that we're all becoming renters instead of buyers.

Saying that there isn't a force countering this is peak doomerism. New factories take a long time to build. These companies didn't have spare production lines waiting for demand to go up.

Re: 245TB Micron 6600 ION Data Center SSD Now Shipping

#132

Post by Aurornis »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #53

I checked the specs here: https://www.micron.com/content/dam/micron/global/public/prod... The interface looks equiv to 4x PCIe 5.0. > Sequential read (MB/s): 13,700 > Sequential write (MB/s): 2,700 That is pretty awful write performance. Does anyone know more about this? I assume all of these hyperdense SSDs suffer from the same drawback. Also, I heard that the E3.L interface can support up to 16x lanes, but there ar…

Consumer and data center drives play by different rules. The super high write speeds you see for consumer SSDs are usually achieved through tricks like using sections of the drive as a high-speed buffer and then using a background process to rewrite the data into the drive's high-density NAND storage during downtime. They can also use caching techniques that aren't resilient to power loss. They might allow burst performance that heats the drive up until it throttles.

This is all fine and even desirable for a consumer who will only be writing for at most a minute or two, but with a 245TB server drive you need to assume the performance will be needed constantly. They target sustainable and predictable performance.

Re: 245TB Micron 6600 ION Data Center SSD Now Shipping

#133

Post by vondur »

hikarudo wrote: post #97
dwa3592 wrote: post #86

We bought a 2TB Sandisk SSD back in 2024 for around $95 from best buy. Today 1TB ssd by sandisk is $166(the cheapest that i found, and it goes for $199 in walmart). Market is forcing people to become renters than buyers and there is no force countering that idea. Its a market failure that people will study 10-15 years from now. EDIT- The same 2TB ssd is now $329.99 at bestbuy.

It's not a market failure, it's just supply and demand. There are many computer components competing for the same resources (fabs, wafers). Demand for GPUs, RAM etc. has increased a lot due to AI, but supply is still the same due to new fabs being huge investments that take years to build. Of course the price goes up.

We saw this during the pandemic when everyone wanted to purchase bicycles. Shimano (they make bike transmission parts and brakes) saw a huge increase in demand. Shimano didn't want to invest into new factories as they assumed the demand was a temporary spike. I'm pretty sure this is what is happening currently with RAM, SSD's and processors. New fabs are coming on line, and Apple is looking at both Intel and Samsung to bring additional capacity online. If the AI boom dramatically slows, it's going to be interesting to see how the industry responds.

Re: 245TB Micron 6600 ION Data Center SSD Now Shipping

#135

Post by jandrewrogers »

state_less wrote: post #118
hikarudo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a market failure, it's just supply and demand. There are many computer components competing for the same resources (fabs, wafers). Demand for GPUs, RAM etc. has increased a lot due to AI, but supply is still the same due to new fabs being huge investments that take years to build. Of course the price goes up.

An industry doesn't need to increase supply when demand increases, they can absorb the demand as profits. More so in an industry that is hard to enter into. Consumers hate this and call it all sorts of things like market failure, gouging, etc... In this case, the suppliers are slow walking increases in production and enjoying a run up in profits. They raise concerns about oversupply, as if this deep learning thing we…

> the suppliers are slow walking increases in production and enjoying a run up in profits

The major companies have been trying to build >$100B of new production capacity in the US for years now. All of these manufacturing facilities have been significantly delayed by NIMBYs using the same "environmental and community concerns" advocacy slop that hinders almost all productive industry in the US.

Blaming the suppliers is a lazy take. They aren't responsible for degrowth activists being able to dictate what we are allowed to build.

Re: 245TB Micron 6600 ION Data Center SSD Now Shipping

#136

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

wao0uuno wrote: post #113
mxfh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is stopping anyone from buying a USB-C powered and connected very portable 2 or 4 slot external NVMe enclosures. The old SATA SSD form factor is dead and wont come back. OWC ThunderBlades exist, but 32TB will set you back 9 grand. You should be able to assemble something with USB-C for under 5k. That's not a mass consumer market thing, but perfectly doable, if your use case warrants it. We are stuck with 2021…

>Nobody is stopping anyone from buying a USB-C powered and connected very portable 2 or 4 slot external NVMe enclosures. That's more expensive than buying a single large capacity drive. It's also a terrible idea. I would never trust a low cost chinese controller with terabytes of my data. >The old SATA SSD form factor is dead and wont come back. That's true and very unfortunate.

I will not miss the awful, half-duplex protocol that never should have won over SAS. I just wish that PCIe switches and cheaper eMMC/UFS flash on M.2 were available for more flexible and cost effective storage options.

Re: 245TB Micron 6600 ION Data Center SSD Now Shipping

#137

Post by hikarudo »

wtallis wrote: post #122
hikarudo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a market failure, it's just supply and demand. There are many computer components competing for the same resources (fabs, wafers). Demand for GPUs, RAM etc. has increased a lot due to AI, but supply is still the same due to new fabs being huge investments that take years to build. Of course the price goes up.

> There are many computer components competing for the same resources (fabs, wafers). That's a bit off the mark. Processors, RAM, and flash memory each require their own specialized fabs. TSMC makes processors but not DRAM or NAND flash. Kioxia makes flash only. Samsung has all three types of fabs. Micron does DRAM and NAND, in different fabs. The increase in SSD prices is not because there are many components compet…

Thanks for the correction. You're absolutely right.

Re: 245TB Micron 6600 ION Data Center SSD Now Shipping

#138

Post by jandrewrogers »

hikarudo wrote: post #97
dwa3592 wrote: post #86

We bought a 2TB Sandisk SSD back in 2024 for around $95 from best buy. Today 1TB ssd by sandisk is $166(the cheapest that i found, and it goes for $199 in walmart). Market is forcing people to become renters than buyers and there is no force countering that idea. Its a market failure that people will study 10-15 years from now. EDIT- The same 2TB ssd is now $329.99 at bestbuy.

It's not a market failure, it's just supply and demand. There are many computer components competing for the same resources (fabs, wafers). Demand for GPUs, RAM etc. has increased a lot due to AI, but supply is still the same due to new fabs being huge investments that take years to build. Of course the price goes up.

This was avoidable. Over $100B of new production capacity in the US alone has been in the works for years. The usual "environmental and community concerns" lawsuits and activism that plagues building in the US has delayed almost every single one of these projects by multiple years.

NIMBYs and degrowth activists own this particular "market failure". The companies have been trying to invest in capacity ahead of demand but have been prevented from doing so.

Re: 245TB Micron 6600 ION Data Center SSD Now Shipping

#139

Post by hephaes7us »

Aurornis wrote: post #131
dwa3592 wrote: post #86

We bought a 2TB Sandisk SSD back in 2024 for around $95 from best buy. Today 1TB ssd by sandisk is $166(the cheapest that i found, and it goes for $199 in walmart). Market is forcing people to become renters than buyers and there is no force countering that idea. Its a market failure that people will study 10-15 years from now. EDIT- The same 2TB ssd is now $329.99 at bestbuy.

> Market is forcing people to become renters than buyers and there is no force countering that idea. The doomerism surrounding this topic is wild. Gas prices have also gone up recently, but I don't see the same claims about how it's the end of personal vehicles, that the prices are never coming down, or that we're all becoming renters instead of buyers. Saying that there isn't a force countering this is peak doomeris…

If you don't see people talking about the "end of personal vehicles", it could just be that you haven't looked very hard.

It's intuitively obvious to a lot of people that the era of personal, wholly owned transportation is waning. A lot of people seem to miss the second clause of that old "you'll own nothing" phase, the part where most people are happy about it!

When vehicles drive themselves, and there's a large enough pool that one can show up pretty reliably within a few minutes of your needing one, how many people are going to choose to own when renting is cheaper and easier?

Re: 245TB Micron 6600 ION Data Center SSD Now Shipping

#140

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

markhahn wrote: post #119
therealmarv wrote: post #63

Meanwhile I'm still dreaming about any consumer and affordable 32TB or even 16TB portable SSD. Innovation and market for consumers are going backwards. Funny thing is that one of the best you can get is the Crucial (Micron) 8TB one but even that one gets more expensive. I have the feeling it will be gone completely soon.

I find it very odd that there is so much faith in "innovation" (and probably "economies of scale"). there is no sign of any impending breakthroughs that would change flash economics much. slc-mlc-tlc-qlc was very nice but plc will not happen. layer-based flash was also nice but it is ultimately linear (more layers, more cost, lower yield). dimensional shrinks are already stalled because of a tragic electron shortage…

I'm still pining for Optane to make a comeback.
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