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Java 26 is here
131–140 of 352 posts
Re: Java 26 is here
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean by "better than Go for industry purposes"? I don't understand what "industry purposes" means and in what aspects Java is better than Go in your opinion (I can think of some myself, but I'm interested in your perspective).
Not the GP, but for really large code bases, Go is missing a few features that I've noticed: 1) No immutable types. My work team is a huge user of immutable data stuctures in Java to make sure data passed around to other teams isn't changed. Go doesn't really have a good way to do this. 2) Refactoring can be really annoying (or at least really noisy) because of public/private being defined by capitalization of method…
I think you want sum types which admittedly Go doesn't have in a matchable way. However complex error recovery is an anti pattern for Go.
Re: Java 26 is here
#133As someone who has been out of the Java world for many years, but recently forced back into it due to Android dev requirements, Post lawsuit, what is the relationship between Android (Google) and Java now? When can we expect 26 on Android? On that note, why is Android always so far behind? Is it because Kotlin is primary or is it deeper? Did the lawsuit play a role?
I've used Java decades ago (anyone remember servlet?) and I'm glad that I can use flutter for Android development.
I do really need to give flutter a try. My only reason I haven't yet is that I have no desire to learn Dart. How do you (or anyone) like Dart compared to Java or Kotlin?
Re: Java 26 is here
#134the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
And Java has some advantages that are hard to beat. It performs better than Go and builds just as fast (at least when not using some popular build tools) while offering unmatched deep, low-overhead observability.
People might think they may enjoy another language more, but the portion of people who eventually come to regret choosing Java is probably lower than that of any other language.
Re: Java 26 is here
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
The "reasonable" thing go does is pausing core threads doing the actual work of your program, if it feels they create too much garbage so it can keep up, severely limiting throughput.
I think this is a misunderstanding. If the program out-paces the GC because the GC guessed the trigger point wrong, something has to give. In Go, what gives is goroutines have to use some of their time slice to assist the GC and pay down their allocations. In Java, I believe what you used to get was called "concurrent mode failure" which was somewhat notorious, since it would just stop the world to complete the mark…
A lot of the answer is that if you can do more work while generating less garbage (lower allocation rate) this problem basically solves itself. Basically every "high performance GC language" other than Java allows for "value type"/"struct"s which allow for way lower allocation rate, which puts a lot less pressure on the GC.
Re: Java 26 is here
#136the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
It's getting better, it doesn't all have to be Spring Boot and JBoss. There is quarkus, helidon and micronaut for slimmer more modern backend frameworks. jbang for scripting (think uvx, bunx), Tambo UI ( https://tamboui.dev/ ) for terminal UIs, and more. Along with all the new Java features that help you write much simpler code - eg. virtual threads, structured concurrency, stream gatherers, and performance / resourc…
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Re: Java 26 is here
#137the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
Maybe this is just a question of taste but I never could get along with Javas (or Kotlin's) tooling.
Primarily working in Vim/Helix works for most languages from Nix to Typescript or Rust and C, but Java just never worked quite right. It also generally felt like it had a worse story around tooling from a DX perspective, something like Golang or even npm feels a lot lighter than the molasses of JDK management and gradle et al.
Re: Java 26 is here
#138the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
> hell its better than Go for industry purposes
Yet if you ask people in the bay area, especially the those who are under 35, they would tell you that "Use Java? Over my deadbody". It's just amazing that people always chase shiny new things.
Re: Java 26 is here
#139the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
I wonder if at we are standing looking at the smoking field of programming languages created over the last 50 years and gazing at the final survivors, of which Java is definitely one. Why would anyone create a new language now? The existing ones are "good enough", and without a body of examples for LLMs to train on, a new language has little chance getting traction. I learned IBM /360 assembler when I started in comp…
> Why would anyone create a new language now? The existing ones are "good enough", and without a body of examples for LLMs to train on, a new language has little chance getting traction.
Compiler writing can be an art form and not all art is for mass consumption.
> Java has won (alongside many other winners of course), now the AI drawbridge is being raised to stop new entrants and my pick is that Java will still be here in 50 years time, it's just no humans will be creating it.
This makes no sense to me. If AI possesses intelligence then it should have no problem learning how to use a new language. If it doesn't possess intelligence, we shouldn't be outsourcing all of our programming to it.
Re: Java 26 is here
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean by "better than Go for industry purposes"? I don't understand what "industry purposes" means and in what aspects Java is better than Go in your opinion (I can think of some myself, but I'm interested in your perspective).
Ya, that seems to be a misunderstanding. "Industry purposes" covers a huge range of stuff. Go is pretty good for systems programming where Java isn't really an option due to the fundamental limits imposed by garbage collection and lack of pointers. Java is pretty good for higher-level application development where occasional GC pauses are tolerable (the GC pauses are rare and fast now, but they still rule out using J…
GC pauses on modern JVMs are < 1ms (ZGC & Shanandoah)