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TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

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Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#131

Post by 1659447091 »

ssl-3 wrote: post #50
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I once had a TSA individual take my 85mm f1.2 RF series Canon lens out of its case and hold it up to the light to "inspect it." I said, "can you please be careful with that? It's a $3,000 lens..." The person cut me off and flatly stated: "Excuse me sir, I know what I'm doing..." The great thing is that if the person had dropped it, they would've faced zero consequences and I would be out a lens which was central…

I don't intend for this to sound like an excuse. I don't fly often, and almost never with anything expensive. But I am curious: Can objects like expensive precision optics be insured against damage from the TSA? Is that a thing that regular people can easily find coverage for?

> Can objects like expensive precision optics be insured against damage from the TSA?

"You may file a claim if you are injured or your property is lost or damaged during the screening process."

It takes ~6 months or so, and you need to be very thorough and provide as much info as you can (like receipts to prove the cost). And they do actually investigate, even for minor claims and will send a check if they were at fault (ie, not the airline losing your stuff).

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/claims

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#132

Post by 1659447091 »

Spartan-S63 wrote: post #128
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my lens was/is insured. The problem is, it's not something you can just pick up at Best Buy, so the trip would've been a total loss (it was for business).

And even if you could be made whole via insurance, the TSA agent not facing repercussions and the system not having a feedback loop to improve is the actual problem.

> the TSA agent not facing repercussions and the system not having a feedback loop to improve is the actual problem.

They do. A group of them play in the local co-ed sports leagues, including one in upper management. I had an issue at a different airport, filed a minor claim, and when I next saw them mentioned it wondering if it will just get filed away in the bin. They said I most likely just got someone fired. Later I heard that manager mentioned the story in a meeting reminding them of diligence and professionalism. Though, I've never had issues at my home airport where they work -- and they take issue with agents at airports like the other one that make their job more difficult/unpleasant. They take a lot of abuse.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#133

Post by tpm »

gensym wrote: post #73
idle_zealot wrote: post #58

There's no consistency in procedure from TSA agents. They're undertrained, unaccountable, and some combination of bored, disinterested, and high on petty authority. I don't think any amount of training or official guidance could improve the situation, though. The essential problem is the authority plus unaccountability or oversight. That will always go poorly for anyone subjected to that authority sooner or later.

Perhaps once AI destroys all the livelihoods of educated and disciplined white collar workers, it'll be easier for the TSA to find people who can follow basic instructions and show a normal amount of empathy.

It's always the leaders of an organisation that are responsible for the behavior. Always.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#134

Post by tpm »

MBCook wrote: post #114
bichiliad wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the job, not the person. All sorts of people work at the TSA; clearly it's endemic to the TSA, not to the people who work there.

You have to deal with pissed people all day who don’t listen at all. And if you make the tiniest mistake you could be the person who failed to stop the next 9/11. Doing the same three or four things screening people all day long has got to be mind numbingly boring. Unless you’re at an airport that isn’t constantly busy where instead you get to stand around doing nothing, which can be worse. It honestly sounds like a…

There are people at airports all over the world doing very similar jobs to this. I have no experience with the TSA but noticed the attitude varies widely country to country and even airport to airport. I guess my point is it can be done with empathy and respect, even if the rules are strict.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#135

Post by Balgair »

chaps wrote: post #30

I'm one of those weirdos who opts out of the scanners because I'd rather avoid having people casually look inside of my body. Last time I flew out of Laguardia I opted out and while I was being patted down another TSA agent about twenty feet away kept making kissy faces at me. Very much felt like intimidation. What a time..

One trick with opt outs: suit and tie.

The 'better' you look, the less they'll worry and faster they'll be. If you look like some business person that's 'important', they treat you like one too. Airline staff generally follows that principal too, especially if you wear a nice hat for some reason. Not a ballcap, fyi. Though once you sit down in coach, the game is off.

Oh, also, squinting at the TSA nametag and saying 'Thank you/Excuse me, Officer John Doe', yeah, makes them feel big and respected. Gotta work the referees here.

Like, just generally following and slimy salesman tactic and reading 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' will work very well with TSA (most people, really).

Mostly treat that individual well, the same comes back.

Now at small regional airports with a few flights a day, really nothing works, those folks are there for the power trip and couldn't break into the local PD good ol boys network and got rejected from the army. Not always, but mostly. They never get an opt out either, so they have to go really by the book as they mostly forgot what to do.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#136

Post by Balgair »

meatmanek wrote: post #35

I want to know more about the mechanism of damage to a spinal implant from (what I assume is) a millimeter-wave scanner. I would expect millimeter waves to not penetrate very deeply -- Wikipedia says "typically less than 1 mm" (their citation for that is behind a paywall though.) Seems like an implant should be more than 1mm below the surface.

Like the top of your skull, the boney bits on your spine can be less than a mm from the air. Especially if you're a woman or are elderly or are quite sick and recovering. Many things can affect skin thickness.

Also, that depth is probably the FWHM of the decay curve, so it is reaching a bit deeper but at lower amplitudes.

Also the scanner has some quirks of its own, so who knows really what the exact specifics of that particular scanner are on that day.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#137

Post by 0xTJ »

Chris2048 wrote: post #122
0xTJ wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly to make a point; more people are likely to care about it not being okay if it's phrased that way. (Something, something, toxic masculinity, "suck it up tough guy, can't handle a little pat-down?") The fact that the TSA agent a woman doesn't automatically make someone else comfortable with whatever liberties the agent feels like taking. It's still likely worse if it's a man doing it, but sharing a gender isn't…

So you think that's a toxic attitude, but cater to it anyway? It's like saying "I mention she's whites because racists might not care otherwise".

That's not really an equivalent statement. In general, women do face more harassment and unwanted touching, which often doesn't translate to the "white" example you give.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#138

Post by Hizonner »

kube-system wrote: post #29
ceejayoz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They find hundreds of guns in carry on baggage every year… They don't exactly have a great track record in that regard. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-... "In all, so-called "Red Teams" of Homeland Security agents posing as passengers were able get weapons past TSA agents in 67 out of 70 tests — a 95 percent failure rate, according to agency officials." (Don't worry, though. They fixed…

They're not mutually exclusive things. Red-teamers often have quite a bit of expertise and are smarter than your average threat. And the point of these exercises is precisely to continually improve in response to the findings. But alas, most of the people who bring guns on to planes aren't threats anyway (at least not in the typical sense), they're idiots who forgot their CCW in their bag.

> smarter than your average threat

Well, there's a good candidate for the dumbest assumption I'm going to see this month.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#139

Post by kube-system »

Hizonner wrote: post #138
kube-system wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not mutually exclusive things. Red-teamers often have quite a bit of expertise and are smarter than your average threat. And the point of these exercises is precisely to continually improve in response to the findings. But alas, most of the people who bring guns on to planes aren't threats anyway (at least not in the typical sense), they're idiots who forgot their CCW in their bag.

> smarter than your average threat Well, there's a good candidate for the dumbest assumption I'm going to see this month.

What assumption?

Well funded and planned security threats are overwhelmingly outliers. Most security threats in airports are drunk and pissed off idiots, and most terrorists are lone wolf crazies with zero experience or expertise in security.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#140

Post by Hizonner »

kube-system wrote: post #139
Hizonner wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> smarter than your average threat Well, there's a good candidate for the dumbest assumption I'm going to see this month.

What assumption? Well funded and planned security threats are overwhelmingly outliers. Most security threats in airports are drunk and pissed off idiots, and most terrorists are lone wolf crazies with zero experience or expertise in security.

Those aren't the ones who are actually going to do serious damage. Drunk pissed off idiots haven't planned to be carrying anything anyway. Lone wolf crazies might get organized enough to be in the line in the first place... and if they do, well, crazy is not actually mutually exclusive with smart or even knowledgeable. And you still have the assumption that it matters how smart you are. There are only so many places to hide a weapon, and being smarter doesn't give you more choices.
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