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Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

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Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#131

Post by bko »

trinsic2 wrote: post #59
bko wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The government works for the people, not the other way around. For the people, by the people and of the people. If you don't question people in positions of power they will just do whatever they want. Democracy is sustained by action, not by acquiescence. And with the lawlessness of this administration, I would make it a point to hold them accountable. I'm not going to let them do mass surveillance when they decide t…

I want people to question people in power. Thats kind of the point of democracy. But it's good to remember corporations aren't people :-)

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#132

Post by nradov »

hendzen wrote: post #92

@pg on @sama: "you could parachute him into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king." In retrospect this quote comes across as way more foreboding given what we've learned about the scale of his ambitions and his willingness to lie and bend reality to gain power. Dario on the other hand seems to have an integrity that's particularly rare in this era. I hope he remains strong in the f…

It's always hilarious watching online fights between tech industry billionaires, sort of like the geek version of UFC. The weirdest part is how regular people pick sides and defend their billionaire against the other guy.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#133

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

lmeyerov wrote: post #115
cheema33 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OAI conditions were basically "DoW won't do anything which violates the rules DoW sets for itself." I believe this understanding is correct. The issue many people have these days with Dept. of War, and most of Trump admin is that they have little respect for laws. They only follow the ones they like and openly ignore the ones that are inconvenient. Dept of "War" should have zero problems agreeing to the two conditi…

I find it confusing in most directions. Ex: For the above statement, if they're truly dishonest brokers and openly ignore the rules that are inconvenient, they would have zero problems agreeing to Anthropic's terms and then violating them. So what you say may be quite true, but there would still need to be more to the story for it to make sense. Ex: DoW officials are stating that they were shocked that their vendor c…

I have no idea what exactly Anthropic was offering the DoD, but if there were a LLM product, possible that the existing guardrails prevented the model from executing on the DoD vision.

"Find all of the terrorists in this photo", "Which targets should I bomb first?"

Even if the DoD wanted to ignore the legal terms, the model itself would not cooperate. DoD required a specially trained product without limitations.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#134

Post by aardvarkr »

cheema33 wrote: post #68
mrandish wrote: post #57

When @sama announced within hours that OAI was replacing Anthropic with the "same conditions ", it was clear that either the DoW or OAI (or both) were fudging. DoW balked at Anthropic's conditions so OAI's agreement must have made the "conditions" basically unenforceable. And sure enough, my reading of it left the impression the OAI conditions were basically "DoW won't do anything which violates the rules DoW sets fo…

> OAI conditions were basically "DoW won't do anything which violates the rules DoW sets for itself." I believe this understanding is correct. The issue many people have these days with Dept. of War, and most of Trump admin is that they have little respect for laws. They only follow the ones they like and openly ignore the ones that are inconvenient. Dept of "War" should have zero problems agreeing to the two conditi…

I don’t care who is in the whitehouse. Snowden revealed the crimes of the NSA in 2013 when Obama was president. They’re all going to want to use AI for mass surveillance

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#136

Post by mrandish »

Loquebantur wrote: post #58
pfisherman wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very easy to explain. Anthropic outlines some limitations in their terms of service. Palantir accepted those terms. The DoD did not. OpenAI claims their terms of service for DoD contain the same limitations as Anthropics proposed service agreement. Anthropic claims that this is untrue. Now given that (a) the DoD terminated their deal with Anthropic, (b) stated that they terminated because Anthropic refused mo…

“We’ve actually held our red lines with integrity rather than colluding with them to produce ‘safety theater’ for the benefit of employees (which, I absolutely swear to you, is what literally everyone at [the Pentagon], Palantir, our political consultants, etc, assumed was the problem we were trying to solve),” Amodei reportedly wrote. “The real reasons [the Pentagon] and the Trump admin do not like us is that we hav…

> we haven’t donated to Trump

Another reason is that Sam Altman has been willing to "play ball" like providing high-profile (though meaningless) big announcements Trump likes to tout as successes. For example:

> "The Stargate AI data center project worth $500 billion, announced by US President Donald Trump in January 2025, is reportedly running into serious trouble.

More than a year after the announcement, the joint venture between OpenAI, Oracle, and Softbank hasn't hired any staff and isn't actively developing any data centers, The Information reports, citing three people involved in the "shelved idea."

https://the-decoder.com/stargates-500-billion-ai-infrastruct...

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#137

Post by bko »

Spooky23 wrote: post #52
bko wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It’s a service. Democracy doesn’t give the government the right to force you to perform a service. The technology isn’t suitable for the purposes the regime wants.

They can choose to sell to government agencies or not. But selling to them and then trying to have some veto power is wrong. So it sounds like we're in a agreement.

I would like western Democratic powers to have the most advanced technology personally but you may disagree.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#138

Post by biffles »

It was fascinating to see OpenAI’s gaslighting in action last week. Signing their deal with the DoW and then announcing it so publicly clearly had the goal to (a) portray Anthropic as unreasonable actors that couldn’t come up with a “safe” solution like OpenAI and (b) take away all the leverage Anthropic had in the contract negotiations. Clever (in a Machiavellian sort of way) but still can’t understand why they did it so blatantly — literally hours after Anthropic was designated persona non grata by the government. Clearly this has backfired in a massive way.

In a way, I admire Dario’s stance and having the backbone to stand up to a government that is so happy to punish, legally or illegally, those that disagree with them. I certainly wouldn’t have the bravery (or stupidity) in his position — which frankly makes me happy that he’s running Anthropic and not someone like me…

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#139

Post by bko »

jheimark wrote: post #64
bko wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That is crazy. You are suggesting that corporations should have no power over their own IP. Are you really saying that if Anthropic sells a limited version of their product to Palantir at a certain price, the government should be able to demand access to an unlimited version of Anthropic's product for free because they are a customer of Palantir? That would effectively mean the government gets an unlimited license to…

Imagine if a gun manufacturer sold weapons to the military but said "don't use them is unjustified wars as we deem fit" seems wrong as we dont want gun manufacturers setting our foreign policy. Choose not to sell them sure, but this isn't "ownership of IP". If the feds were to ask for weights and torrent it out, sure IP. But this ain't that

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#140

Post by tmule »

oxdgd38 wrote: post #95
mrandish wrote: post #57

When @sama announced within hours that OAI was replacing Anthropic with the "same conditions ", it was clear that either the DoW or OAI (or both) were fudging. DoW balked at Anthropic's conditions so OAI's agreement must have made the "conditions" basically unenforceable. And sure enough, my reading of it left the impression the OAI conditions were basically "DoW won't do anything which violates the rules DoW sets fo…

We know how this story will end for Dario. See Oppenheimer, Turing, Lavoisier, Galileo, Socretes etc. Power does not reside in the hands of people with knowledge or even wealth. And most technical people have not taken a political philosophy course or even a philosphy course. The Ring of Gyges story is 4000 years old.

Oppenheimer? Really? Quoting a review of an Oppenheimer biography:

“Oppenheimer was clearly an enormously charming man, but also a manipulative man and one who made enemies he need not have made. The really horrible things Oppenheimer did as a young man – placing a poisoned apple on the desk of his advisor at Cambridge, attempting to strangle his best friend – and yes, he really did those things – Monk passes off as the result of temporary insanity, a profound but passing psychological disturbance. (There’s no real attempt by Monk to explain Oppenheimer’s attempt to get Linus Pauling’s wife Ava to run off to Mexico with him, which ended the possibility of collaboration with one of the greatest scientists of the twentieth, or any, century.) Certainly the youthful Oppenheimer did go through a period of serious mental illness; but the desire to get his own way, and feelings of enormous frustration with people who prevented him from getting his own way, seem to have been part of his character throughout his life.”

Seems more like Sam Altman, who is known to get his way, than Dario.

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