Half of the software I use on a daily basis (lots of old SunOS-era custom data reduction software) doesn't work under Wayland. Guess I'll finally flip my daily driver over to *BSD.
XWayland is not going away.
KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support
131–140 of 248 posts
Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support
#132I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…
> what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it 1. Security - Any program using X11 can read keystrokes, passwords, or the contents of any other window. Fixing this would break all existing X11 applications. 2. Performance - X11's client-server model doesn't work with hardware accelerated graphics, requiring hacks to get around. X11 is basically stuck with this legacy. The ground-up re-design of X11 to fix th…
On the other hand, #1 makes it extremely difficult (if not impossible at all) to have a decent UI automation on Wayland. Sure, you can still do it if you're not leaving the terminal or a web browser, but anything else (including Electron apps) is a no-go. All the existing tools are written for X11.
The last time I looked into it, I found out I would have to deal with each compositor separately. On top of that, the target apps would have to be written with the new API in mind.
Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
idk how we can blame some JavaScript and html inside Firefox causing a Wayland crash as Discord’s fault. They’re like 9000 layers of abstraction away from whatever SIGSEGV caused the crash
> idk how we can blame some JavaScript and html inside Firefox causing a Wayland crash as Discord’s fault I don't see anyone talking about a Wayland crash, it's about Discord crashing.
Whoops, I thought I was replying inside this thread tree: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46059256
> I tried Wayland earlier today on my home lab with Plasma and FreeBSD. It seemed pretty great for a bit and ran my monitor at 120Hz.
> Until it hard crashed my machine after I opened discord in firefox. Konqueror crashed on opening.
I lost track of the indentation on my phone
Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support
#134This is interesting to me, because SteamOS, so Steam Deck uses KDE. I really wonder how they are going to tackle going from X to Wayland on 4 million machines, and what that will bring.
I thought it used Gamescope, with the option to boot to KDE.
So they won't have to do.much for Gamescope, and the current hardware should support Wayland. We shall see with the new hardware coming out next year though.
Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
On KDE you can just type a number into the scale percentage field in the display configuration settings pane. I typed "73" and it snapped to 72.5 which is probably close enough. I don't know whether GNOME supports anything similar, unlike KDE they really don't like giving users very many configuration options.
I tried it on KDE Plasma(6.5.3) just now and it resets to 100%.
Weird, mine lets me go down to 50%: https://files.catbox.moe/gjuzl6.png . Out of curiosity, do you use an nVidia graphics card? I know in the past their drivers have had problems with scaling on Linux.
Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support
#136I live in a cave and am not a system programmer -- what's so wrong with X11 so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Or, what's so wrong with anything so people need to replace it with something else instead of improving it? Let's say I'm an old man favoring improving existing stuffs instead of starting from scratch. I like debugging and wish to work as a sys programmer specialized in…
Just one example: Around 2009 I met Thiago Vignatti. His master thesis was about improving X so it was easy to use in a multi-seat setup (2 monitors/keyboard/mouse) so a single computer could be simultaneously used by two people. He later worked for Nokia, Intel and eventually his own startup related to VR. During his time as a Google summer of code student, his project was to paralelize X code so it could run in mul…
Thanks, looks like there is a shitload under the mountain. I agree it is very hard, or impossible to fix the issue, and fixing it might as well mean a lot of new code anyway.
Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support
#137I'm on Kubuntu and use xpra, xdotool and a few other x-specific things fairly regularly. Wondering what this means for me as I'm very reluctant to lose my capabilities. I'd rather freeze my updating indefinitely.
Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find your comment a bit funny on multiple levels. "Linux" does not force anything on you right? It's the community that has by and large decided to move to maintaining other solutions. If you still want to use fvwm you can still run it on arch with x11 until x11 is not maintained and the kernel breaks it somehow
"Linux" is mostly controlled by a few corporations and their interests. It's been a loooooooooong time since it was a grass roots movement. I don't know about you, but corporate dictates always leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Oh sure there's absolutely places where this is true. But there's so many many counter examples. Sway, Niri, Hyprland desktops... Top tier incredible experiences begat as small personal passions. So many incredible tools that have become must-have-daily-drivers for folks, alike this modern shell tools thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41292835
The narrative that everything is corporate and greed is, imo, a deep deep dis-service. Incredible things are happening on the edge, and there's nothing else on the planet remotely resembling the conjunctive discollaboration here. Folks have incredible leverage from existing open source works, & add their own sparkle, time and time again. (Nearly never does this box us in.)
For sure there are big projects too, with huge corporate influence and millions of users.
But it is a deeply rotten proposition to me to try selling some corrupt world case, that this land here is just as rotten and poisoned as the application/apppliance-ized rest of world. That there's coersion. There's some being left behind the pack, some, but so little. "Linux" is still the best freest most augment-intelligemce computing out there by a light year, and it's trends are healthy.
(Wayland in fact has improved & strengthened that stance, freed us from a nasty monolith that everyone had to use, and given us actual freedom of implementation. Wayland is part of the liberation, the addition of choice & liberty. It's wild to me that people seek those old chains.)
Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support
#139At least XWayland will still be supported. Native Wayland windows don’t support controlling window position or living through transparent windows. This is important for apps that provide overlays.
Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yea, it is quite disappointing. Lots of apps still don't work with wayland properly, even a lot of enterprise apps like VPNs have issues. Hopefully they will be ironed out after Ubuntu 26.04 comes out.
Apps running in xwayland run the same way as on X11, xwayland being an xserver. Also I don't understand your relation between a vpn and a graphic protocol.
These apps do have GUI, don't you know? Xwayland doesn't solve their issues.
Imagine you have Cisco VPN and you want to connect - you connect and then close the dialog. It is just gone. Why? On wayland no tray icon is shown.
Now imagine you have Fortigate VPN and you want to connect - you enter the IP address and click connect but nothing really happens. Why? No confirmation dialog was ever displayed in wayland.
Now imagine you have palo alto vpn and you try to connect ... good luck.
Can you work around that by using CLI? Yes, but this is THE issue with wayland. Until critical business apps work, x11 version must be supported, otherwise plasma is only useful for gamers and those that do not have to use their pc for work. I am not against switching to wayland, I just want a reasonable roadmap, not something like - we are going to break your major apps next time you upgrade.
edit: I just mentioned VPNs because they are the first in line when it comes to work from home. Don't let me start on remote support or remote control apps.