This is a bit of an off topic but I'm sorta interested in a general survey of how other manufacturers stack up compared to big 2, particularly Mercedes from Europe, who're said to have a pretty good solution and all the Chinese brands - it's not uncommon to see even mid-range Chinese cars with lidar integrated, wonder how good they are.
When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed
131–140 of 149 posts
Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure if it’s evident in broader statistics yet, but I think that because Tesla got the early adopter market (tech savvy people), they are now losing that same market first. I had a party at my house a couple months ago, mostly SF tech people. I found the Tesla owners chatting together, and the topic was how much FSD sucks and they don’t trust it. I asked and no-one said they would buy a Tesla again. Distrust beca…
I own six EVs (three cars, one of which is a Tesla, and three motorcycles). My first EV was my Tesla. We're on the cusp of trading the Tesla in for a Rivian most likely. I should be Tesla's target customer, but instead I'm exactly who you described: - I don't like the brand. I don't like Elon. I don't like the reputation that the car attaches to me. - I don't trust the technology. I've gotten two FSD trials, both sca…
The astonishing thing is that they haven't released a new car in six years and _do not appear to have one in the works_ (unless you count the Model Y facelift, but really that's pushing it). I think that's pretty much unheard of for an active car manufacturer over the last few decades.
Like, what are they _doing_? Do they still have R&D at all?
Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
If there was actually a rate of one life threatening accident per 10,000 miles with FSD that would be so obvious it would be impossible to hide. So I have to conclude the cars are actually much safer than that.
FSD never drives alone. It's always supervised by another driver legally responsible to correct. More importantly we have no independently verified data about the self driving incidents. Quite the opposite, Tesla repeatedly obscured data or impeded investigations. I've made this comparison before but student drivers under instructor supervision (with secondary controls) also rarely crash. Are they the best drivers? I…
> FSD never drives alone.
So much for "Full Self" whatever.
Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
0%. This is entirely on the driver. He's someone who should spend a few years in prison, and then never be allowed to have a license again. A foot on the gas overrides braking on autopilot and causes it to flash up a large message up on the screen that "Autopilot will not break / Accelerator pedal is pressed"
Yet almost any other car made after that tesla (and much cheaper) will automated break if it's about to hit something, no AI involved, just radar obstacle detection.
> any other car made after that tesla (and much cheaper) will automated break if it's about to hit something,
My 2015 Tesla S brakes if it detects something in its path using radar and usually correctly identifies the object type (truck, car, motorcycle, cyclist, pedestrian) using the camera.
Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed
#135Tesla's FSD will be good enough when you get an insurance discount for using it.
Technically you kind of get this in Nevada when using Tesla insurance and if you drive 100 % FSD. If you drive manually you are pretty much doxed for random Front collision Warning which is super sensitive
That does sound like a punishment for not using it. My statement was more whether they actively sell you a discount for using it.
Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
FSD never drives alone. It's always supervised by another driver legally responsible to correct. More importantly we have no independently verified data about the self driving incidents. Quite the opposite, Tesla repeatedly obscured data or impeded investigations. I've made this comparison before but student drivers under instructor supervision (with secondary controls) also rarely crash. Are they the best drivers? I…
> FSD never drives alone. So much for "Full Self" whatever.
I'll grant that the marketing oversells the capabilities of the system, but (as I have commented repeatedly in these FSD threads): anyone using it knows within a couple days their comfort level. I'm utterly unconvinced that any user is actually confused about the capacity of the system just because it's named "Autopilot" or "Full Self Driving" is not telling the truth.
The fact of the technology is that while imperfect, it is absolutely a marvel, and incredibly useful. I will never drive home again after having a beer after work, or when I'm tired after a long day. I can only attribute the angry skepticism in the comments to willful ignorance or lack of in-the-seat experience. I use it everyday, it drives me driveway to parking with only occasional interventions (per week!).
I'll throw in that my wife hates it (as a passenger or driver), but she has a much lower tolerance for any variance from expected human driving behaviour (eg. lane choices, overly cautious behaviour around cars waiting to enter traffic, etc).
Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
> FSD never drives alone. So much for "Full Self" whatever.
I'll grant that the marketing oversells the capabilities of the system, but (as I have commented repeatedly in these FSD threads): anyone using it knows within a couple days their comfort level. I'm utterly unconvinced that any user is actually confused about the capacity of the system just because it's named "Autopilot" or "Full Self Driving" is not telling the truth. The fact of the technology is that while imperfe…
> I use it everyday, it drives me driveway to parking with only occasional interventions.
Let's hope you never become statistic.
I am happy that FSD is not permitted where I live. I would be concerned to drive close to one. Call it willful ignore if you prefer.
Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yet almost any other car made after that tesla (and much cheaper) will automated break if it's about to hit something, no AI involved, just radar obstacle detection.
> any other car made after that tesla (and much cheaper) will automated break if it's about to hit something, My 2015 Tesla S brakes if it detects something in its path using radar and usually correctly identifies the object type (truck, car, motorcycle, cyclist, pedestrian) using the camera.
Good for you, but
1) didn't they drop the radar?
2) clearly didn't work in this case
Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Waymo cars are basically priceless at this point. As in: the car cost doesn't matter. They've so far spent multiple times their fleet's costs on R&D. The fact that they're getting some pocket cash from paid fares is inconsequential for their bottom line. Any realistic mass deployment will use cheaper cars, more suitable for taxi service.
The cost isn't an issue at their current scale, perhaps not even one order of magnitude larger, because today's fleet is as much a devkit as it is a consumer product. But that strategy only takes them so far. Cost is a dangerous impediment to scale, and it will be their albatross long before their business model has a chance of becoming profitable, let alone cumulatively profitable.
Other companies have this covered, I think. Zoox cars in Las Vegas are probably a good prototype for more realistic production vehicles.
Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed
#140Ultimately, anecdotes and testimonials of a product like this are irrelevant. But the public discourse hasn't caught up with it. People talk about it like it's a new game console or app, giving their positive or negative testimonials, as if this is the correct way to validate the product. Only rigorous, continual, third party validation that the system is effective and safe would be relevant. It should be evaluated m…
[dead]