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Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

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Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#131

Post by brookst »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #127
Yoric wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If for purely political reasons, China may never be able to export these chips to most of the world - which limits their scale - which makes it harder to make them cost effective compared to Western chips. Note that this happens at the same time the US is breaking up its own alliances, so as of this writing, there's no such thing as certainty about politics.

>the same time the US is breaking up its own alliances This isn't happening. The US is driving a harder bargain with our allies. No one serious thinks anyone is walking away from alliances with the US.

The US has become unreliable and erratic. Countries aren’t cutting ties or anything, but certainly investing to reduce exposure to capricious US leadership. Much of Europe is increasing domestic military production rather than just buying more from the US precisely because the US has publicly discussed leaving NATO and/or not honoring its guarantees.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#132

Post by adventured »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #124
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, the best way America could have prevented China’s rise in tech was by stapling green cards to diplomas of Chinese citizens who completed their higher education in the U.S. like the plan in the early 2010s.

Is that the best way? China's rise had already happened by the 2010s Preventing that could have been prevented in the 70s, 80s, 90s by stopping offshoring, blocking student visas, and prosecuting IP theft.

The inclusion of China in the WTO is what changed everything.

The elites thought they'd set up shop in a new, gigantic consumer market and reap the rewards. So they got Clinton to spend his last days in office lobbying very aggressively for China's inclusion into the WTO.

China had different plans. Keeping the plunderers out (this time) was one of the smartest moves any nation has made in recorded history. Then the same elites slowly pivoted against China, post realizing they wouldn't be allowed to own China. If we can own you, you're our friend; if we can't own you, you're our enemy. And this is quite obviously not a defense of China's human rights record or anything else, that's not the point. China only mattered (in the enemy sense) when the elites realized they were going to be locked on the outside of the rise.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#133

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

brookst wrote: post #129
ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the best way? China's rise had already happened by the 2010s Preventing that could have been prevented in the 70s, 80s, 90s by stopping offshoring, blocking student visas, and prosecuting IP theft.

Those students would have just gone to other countries, written their PhD dissertations there, advanced another country’s tech sector, and the US would have found the pain of isolationism that much sooner. It is not possible to keep core IP secret. HN folks, of all people, should know this. Anything that thousands of people know is de facto public knowledge.

Keeping core IP secret is not the issue. The issue is allowing the Chinese to steal IP and then compete in our markets with that stolen IP.

>students would have just gone to other countries, written their PhD dissertations there, advanced another country’s tech sector,

which other countries specifically? No other country has a tech sector. It's the US hegemony or the China hegemony.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#134

Post by huntertwo »

dlisboa wrote: post #11
hunglee2 wrote: post #2

The US attempt to slow down China's technological development succeeds on the basis of preventing China from directly following the same path, but may backfire in the sense it forces innovation by China in a different direction. The overall outcome for us all may be increase efficiency as a result of this forced innovation, especially if Chinese companies continue to open source their advances, so we may in the end h…

History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. In many senses there's hubris in the western* view of China accomplishments: most of what western companies have created has had significant contribution by Chinese scientists or manufacturing, without which those companies would have nothing. If you look at the name…

The whole “China copies everything” narrative is becoming less and less true.

It’s funny - it’s at the point with Chinese manufacturing for niche electronic goods (e.g rooftop van air conditioner) where some Chinese brands are more trustworthy - more value for your money and sometimes even better overall quality. With American brands you gotta make sure you’re not overpaying for dated tech that is inefficient. Maybe the same will happen with LLMs.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#135

Post by samus »

ambicapter wrote: post #95
wood_spirit wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at the same time they are fielding multiple new stealth aircraft and their jets and missiles outperformed western aircraft in the recent Pakistan India flare-up.

So you'd think they'd be able to build a commercial jet liner, no?

Roughly speaking, an aircraft must fulfill a certain amount of economy (cheap, low cost to operate), safety, and performance.

If you compromise on safety, you get something that is still suitable for the military. If you don't care about economics you can participate in the space race.

But for commercial air travel, you don't have the luxury to pick just two; a competitive commercial airliner has to perform exceedingly well in all three regards.

If you're an airline using expensive aircraft you will go bankrupt. If your aircraft is too slow then your competitors will eat your lunch, and if you have a reputation of being unsafe then your customers will run away or the government will pull the plug (likely both).

IMHO affordable commercial air travel is one of the biggest marvels of 20th century engineering.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#136

Post by zahlman »

muddi900 wrote: post #71
dotnet00 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a popular coping tactic from Americans when it comes to facing actual competition, especially from China. Everything they do must either be a lie or just stolen American technology, as if there's something inherently special about Americans that no one else has.

That is a great respomse to something I did not say.

It's a response to the most obvious motive for you saying it. Why are you bringing up the possibility, in such an inflammatory manner (in particular, making reference to "state media"), otherwise?

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#137

Post by huntertwo »

sofixa wrote: post #26
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. It's worked for a very long time for aircraft. China has been pushing to build its own aircraft for >23 years. It took 14 years for COMAC to get its first regional jet flying commercial flights on a Chinese airline, and 21 years to get a narrow-body plane flying a…

> China has been pushing to build its own aircraft for >23 years. It took 14 years for COMAC to get its first regional jet flying commercial flights on a Chinese airline, and 21 years to get a narrow-body plane flying a commercial flight on a Chinese airline And both those planes have a strong dependency on "western" components that won't be overcome before the 2030s, and even then, they're around a generation behind…

5 years behind becomes 3 years behind. China is expanding their manufacturing abilities faster than the US. Soon they will surpass the US. Look no further than their generic consumer electronics manufacturing.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#138

Post by zahlman »

muddi900 wrote: post #101
larus_canus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just hope you extend this skepticism consistently.

I do. I don't know what gave people the impression that I was born an American and went to their schools. In "open societies" like the US, the form information control are rather sophisticated, but they are there. However, I grew up in a one TV channel country. I learned to never trust the news. This immunizes me from state propaganda a little bit. I think I was more referring to general abundance of credulity that i…

> I don't know what gave people the impression that I was born an American and went to their schools.

The fact that your comment appears to defend the US position, by virtue of attacking a press release from a major non-US competitor by questioning its source.

> This story is just as ridiculous. AliBaba claims to reduce usage of equipment from a business that is being banned by their government. Magically. And during a trade war.

When you have a nuanced argument, it is good to speak plainly (without snark) and proactively bring that evidence. That is, start out with "I doubt the veracity of this story because XYZ involved people have ABC motivation to fabricate it", and actively try to make a case that would convince someone who doesn't already see things your way.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#139

Post by huntertwo »

switchbak wrote: post #98
rayiner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody thinks the Japanese aren’t “civilized.” “Western” is just a euphemism for “rich and orderly.”

It is an odd category, and Japan is often considered to be "Western" - these days at least. That certainly wasn't the case even a few generations ago. I think it's ostensibly supposed to be more about shared cultural values, but even that is a pretty weak way to divide countries. Perhaps "an ally of the United States" is a little more accurate? Any societal dividing line like this is bound to hit on problems once sub…

I think Japan likely shares more values culturally with China than USA outside of political systems. In any aspect outside of that Japan is not western.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#140

Post by notepad0x90 »

tsunamifury wrote: post #56
notepad0x90 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

western is a cultural term derived from a geographic one. The US is also not 'western' strictly geographically as it is not in western europe, neither is australia. But they both originated from Britain's empire and share in it's cultural ancestry. It means "western europe and it's cultural derivatives". Spain and Portugal's empire fell away long before britain and france's and they don't have similar geopolitical re…

False. Westernism is broadly an extension of the academic notion of classicism, starting in Egypt and then Greece Rome and into Europe and the Americas.

It's not an academic notion (at least not strictly), since virtually everyone uses it routinely.
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