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Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

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Re: Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

#131

Post by boundlessdreamz »

chrischen wrote: post #128
boundlessdreamz wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Maps is a huge differentiator. Search & Youtube is not. Windows and Android phones have good maps, iOS doesn't. No one will care much if the search is switched to bing or if youtube was not available as an app. Also youtube makes it money via ads which it shows in the latest app. I don't think google is monetizing maps much.

I agree YouTube may not be, but search is pretty big. However, Google would have a hard time blocking google.com from iPhone users without being anticompetitive. They can not expend the effort to create a google maps app for iphone, but that's not the same as being actively anticompetitive as they would have to be if they wanted to block search from iPhone users.

Sorry. You missed the point. Google wants as many people to use youtube & search. It makes money via ads on both. Having it as default is good (google pays money to FF to be default for example) and even if it is not the default, people can use google by typing google.com in safari. From there, the experience is identical.

Similarly for youtube, google wants the widest audience. Wider the audience, more the ads and more money.

If apple switches from google to bing for safari default, apple gets to spite google a bit and google may lose quite a bit of traffic. This hurts Google. Google will never want to block iOS users from search or youtube.

Secondly, neither is a competitive advantage in smartphone markets. No one is going to switch platforms for either search or youtube.

Maps on the other hand, does not have much advertising. The previous app did not have any advertising at all. They got location data from it but they can get that from android phones. Google loses nothing if they don't release an app. If they don't release an app, it is a great advantage for android. So they have a tradeoff to make, whether to maintain that competitive advantage or release a maps app and gain some audience. If I were google, I wouldn't release maps. For the first time ever, android is way way ahead of iOS in one of the core features.

Re: Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

#132

Post by randomdata »

Tichy wrote: post #126
randomdata wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google wants as many people to use its maps as possible. If that were true, they would offer the service for free. As it stands, for normal contracts, only the first 25,000 requests per day are free[1]. If we assume Google wasn't willing to give Apple a special pricing deal, with 300M+ iOS devices in the wild, Apple could easily be left shelling out a fortune each day to user their data. [1] https://developers.goog…

I am pretty sure using a maps app is more like visiting maps.google.de in a browser, that is, it would be free. The pricing link you gave is for embedding Google Maps into your product. If anything, I suspect Google paid Apple to keep maps on the iPhone, and now Apple's demands were getting too much.

If what you say is true – which I have to disagree with: If you built a third-party Maps app that duplicates the functionality, you would most certainly be subject to API fees – there is the secondary issue of Apple allowing Maps (and Youtube, for that matter) to completely stagnate. The iOS 5 version of Maps was still a pretty poor experience for the timeframe, even if you feel it was better than the new version.

What incentive was there for Google to back Apple's poor implementations when they can just release their own versions that actually bring the features Google wants to offer their customers on their own schedule, as they are doing now?

Re: Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

#133

Post by Tichy »

randomdata wrote: post #132
Tichy wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure using a maps app is more like visiting maps.google.de in a browser, that is, it would be free. The pricing link you gave is for embedding Google Maps into your product. If anything, I suspect Google paid Apple to keep maps on the iPhone, and now Apple's demands were getting too much.

If what you say is true – which I have to disagree with: If you built a third-party Maps app that duplicates the functionality, you would most certainly be subject to API fees – there is the secondary issue of Apple allowing Maps (and Youtube, for that matter) to completely stagnate. The iOS 5 version of Maps was still a pretty poor experience for the timeframe, even if you feel it was better than the new version. Wh…

Nobody seems to have provided any quotes or citations yet that indicate that Apple had to pay Google.

Such a maps app is more like a browser visiting maps.google.com - browser vendors also don't pay for doing that.

Re: Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

#134

Post by randomdata »

Tichy wrote: post #133
randomdata wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you say is true – which I have to disagree with: If you built a third-party Maps app that duplicates the functionality, you would most certainly be subject to API fees – there is the secondary issue of Apple allowing Maps (and Youtube, for that matter) to completely stagnate. The iOS 5 version of Maps was still a pretty poor experience for the timeframe, even if you feel it was better than the new version. Wh…

Nobody seems to have provided any quotes or citations yet that indicate that Apple had to pay Google. Such a maps app is more like a browser visiting maps.google.com - browser vendors also don't pay for doing that.

Embedding a map with a search field in an HTML page is no different than maps.google.com either, but you will be subject to the API terms because those are the terms Google has decided upon. They could ask browser vendors to pay too, if they wanted to, but have chosen not to. They chose to charge those who implement software using their API. A Maps app like Apple's, which does far more than pointing to maps.google.com, needs to use the API service, which Google has decided to charge a fee for. Granted, Apple could have struck an independent deal with Google to use the service without said fee. That, we will never know.

But what reason would Apple have to go out of their way to maintain their own datasource (and pay other vendors, like TomTom, for help) if Google's data already fit the bill? Even more so if Apple was going to be paid to use it as you speculate. A dislike for Android isn't reason enough, especially as this move strengthens Androids position for the time being. The only logical explanation is that Google wasn't willing to play ball, for one reason or another.

Re: Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

#135

Post by Tichy »

randomdata wrote: post #134
Tichy wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody seems to have provided any quotes or citations yet that indicate that Apple had to pay Google. Such a maps app is more like a browser visiting maps.google.com - browser vendors also don't pay for doing that.

Embedding a map with a search field in an HTML page is no different than maps.google.com either, but you will be subject to the API terms because those are the terms Google has decided upon. They could ask browser vendors to pay too, if they wanted to, but have chosen not to. They chose to charge those who implement software using their API. A Maps app like Apple's, which does far more than pointing to maps.google.co…

The real value of the maps apps is collecting data about user's behavior and movement patterns. Apple don't get that if they use a third party app.

Re: Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

#136

Post by DominikR »

cooldeal wrote: post #16

Wonder how this jives with Gruber's comments on the maps situation: >Using Maps to Improve Maps >> Scott Rafer: >>What’s missing from this conversation is that map usage is critical. […] Google’s maps are going to start degrading. Apple’s will get better. They’ll meet in the middle within 18 months. >The idea is that you need to collect usage data to improve your data. The only way for Apple to get from here to there…

I'm pretty sure they'll get all the signals needed with hundreds of millions of Android and web users.

Re: Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

#137

Post by 89a »

Tichy wrote: post #126
randomdata wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google wants as many people to use its maps as possible. If that were true, they would offer the service for free. As it stands, for normal contracts, only the first 25,000 requests per day are free[1]. If we assume Google wasn't willing to give Apple a special pricing deal, with 300M+ iOS devices in the wild, Apple could easily be left shelling out a fortune each day to user their data. [1] https://developers.goog…

I am pretty sure using a maps app is more like visiting maps.google.de in a browser, that is, it would be free. The pricing link you gave is for embedding Google Maps into your product. If anything, I suspect Google paid Apple to keep maps on the iPhone, and now Apple's demands were getting too much.

> I suspect Google paid Apple to keep maps on the iPhone, and now Apple's demands were getting too much.

Good example of that weird "Google can do no wrong even though it's a company built on collecting information about users and selling it" nerd mentality. It's well known that Google was increasing it's map fees.

Re: Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

#138

Post by ZeroGravitas »

ryanhuff wrote: post #108
revelation wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maps don't magically improve through usage. Fix a POI here and there from user input is not going to cut it for competing with Google Maps. For that, you need LIDARs on the road.

How does LIDAR fix POI?

It gives you building shapes and locations.

Re: Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

#139

Post by josephlord »

Tichy wrote: post #126
randomdata wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google wants as many people to use its maps as possible. If that were true, they would offer the service for free. As it stands, for normal contracts, only the first 25,000 requests per day are free[1]. If we assume Google wasn't willing to give Apple a special pricing deal, with 300M+ iOS devices in the wild, Apple could easily be left shelling out a fortune each day to user their data. [1] https://developers.goog…

I am pretty sure using a maps app is more like visiting maps.google.de in a browser, that is, it would be free. The pricing link you gave is for embedding Google Maps into your product. If anything, I suspect Google paid Apple to keep maps on the iPhone, and now Apple's demands were getting too much.

Yes the consumer web offering is free (and includes Google ads) and is still available through the browser on iOS 6.

You are wrong about the revenue direction. Apple were a significant provider of revenue to Google for map usage. Below is just the article I picked but Googling for 'google maps ios revenue' brings up quite a number.

http://www.ijailbreak.com/news/apple-ios-40-google-mobile-re...

I suspect Apple were upset at the limitations believed to be imposed on them by the Google contract (no turn by turn) and it was expiring anyway. It was probably negotiated when they had no idea how sucessful the iPhone was going to be. Google probably also wanted more control to insert advertising and the fact the two firms are now competitors in mobile OS's and at legal loggerheads made agreement unlikely.

Re: Google has an iOS 6 Maps app awaiting approval

#140

Post by johnbellone »

mirkules wrote: post #48
recoiledsnake wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The people most upset seem to generally be edge cases I love it how you dismiss 99% of people and the globe as an edge case by your anecdote of it working well for you. Let me take a guess, you live on the West Coast where Apple engineers live?

The OP's point is that this feels a lot like Antennagate 2010, where a large number of non-Apple users latched onto the fact that there was something wrong with Apple products, and complained louder than the actual Apple users. At this point, we can call all the evidence anecdotal until we see some hard numbers on how much map data is actually incorrect, and what actual percentage of the population is affected (I'm n…

> The OP's point is that this feels a lot like Antennagate 2010, where a large number of non-Apple users latched onto the fact that there was something wrong with Apple products, and complained louder than the actual Apple users.

The difference here is that there actually was something wrong with the iPhone rather than people having a preference to using Google Maps. Apple is banking on turn-by-turn keeping enough people at by until they're able to squash the shortcomings.

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