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I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#131

Post by close04 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #68
masklinn wrote: post #25

> Lack of standards: For 'L3' DC Fast Charging, the Leaf has a CHAdeMO port. Teslas and many newer EVs have NACS. Then there's CCS1 and CCS2. And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. It's not like gas stations, like with Shell, BP, Buckee's, etc. where you just drive up, stick the gas nozzle in your tank, and squeeze. Afaik in Europe, CCS2 is the standard (and mandator…

It's not a lack of standards, it was an early proliferation of standards. Chademo is still standard in Japan. Also, given his comparison to the ease of the old way, in Europe at least it's fairly standard to know someone who has filled their hire car with diesel (or not diesel) by mistake. They have warning stickers on the filler flap because it happens so often. Meanwhile knowing someone who uses the inexplicably mo…

You can’t easily/accidentally fill a petrol car with diesel. The diesel nozzle is too wide. Other way around is easier. But this is the drawback of ancient standards grandfathered in over a century. EVs don’t have this legacy to carry around.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#132

Post by marcusb »

donatj wrote: post #6

Hmm, my friend had a 2015 Leaf, the interior seemed much nicer and more modern than this 2023 model. > There is no 'play/pause' button. Anywhere. At least not on the steering wheel or the display area. You have to go into the music section on the entertainment display, then press the software play/pause button. That's dumb. My new to me 2023 Honda Odyssey has the same stupid issue. It's my first vehicle with a touch…

Your friend probably had an SL-trimmed Leaf. The car in the video is an SV, which has cloth seats, etc. Interestingly, it looks like Nissan no longer offers the nicer trim levels for the Leaf, only S and SV PLus (at least as of 2025.)

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#133

Post by sillyfluke »

elif wrote: post #129
sillyfluke wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't really follow the secondhand EV market, but it seems to me firsthand buyers are still taking on considerable risk due to the range situation. People who have bought them abroad are sometimes advised to keep the battery between 20%-80-90% full. Following this advice, one person I know told me if they drive like they did their old car they have to recharge after roughly 170 miles, which is super annoying for them…

I did a 6500 mile ev road trip and battery capacity means next to nothing. All that matters is the charging curve between 3% and 60%. Literally all other variables disappear over a road trip.

Nice tip. Are there lots of cars with shittier ranges but sota 3-60% charging curves? What is your acceptable target number for this metric?

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#134

Post by alchemist1e9 »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #109
geerlingguy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$17k minus an extra $2k added to my Camry's trade-in value, and it's eligible for the $4k used vehicle EV tax rebate at the end of the year. So out the door $15k with 36k miles and 94% doh battery, I was satisfied with the deal. At the end of the tax year I'll have paid $11k for the car, effectively. I tacked on the price of the CHAdeMO adapter mentally to the price I offered, since I knew I'd want it for the one or…

Could've bought Model 3 for this and spend $300 for third party buttons. It has software thats actually somewhat hackable and car is far more capable. But I understand it's hard to recommend Tesla these days lol.

Ignoring any PR or political motivations, I’d argue the Leaf is a better choice for many people. I’m biased as I have one, quite similar, but let me give a pros from my perspective:

- a traditional car feeling, knobs, buttons, the way cars have been for decades prior

- very very reliable. basically never needs anything except wiper fluid. no software updates or crashing. I don’t have stats but might be one of most reliable cars

- compact and easy to park

- compatible with comma.ai

- LeafSpy diagnostics to monitor it

- nice hatchback format with fold down rear seats

- ~220 mile range is plenty for around town use and trickle charge overnight

Overall I’m very happy with it and while constantly tempted by Teslas I think I wouldn’t like them as much.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#135

Post by soneil »

masklinn wrote: post #76
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a lack of standards, it was an early proliferation of standards. Chademo is still standard in Japan. Also, given his comparison to the ease of the old way, in Europe at least it's fairly standard to know someone who has filled their hire car with diesel (or not diesel) by mistake. They have warning stickers on the filler flap because it happens so often. Meanwhile knowing someone who uses the inexplicably mo…

A big difference is that if you go to a gas station you’ll have both (and possibly more). At least in Europe. So while you need to fill with the right fuel unless the pump is broken or the tanks are empty the fuel you need will be available. In the US, if you roll up to a random charging station you may or may not find a plug matching your car’s port.

I think the common mistake they’re alluding to is Europe and north America having conflicting standards for colour-coding the pumps. So here green is unleaded and black is diesel, which can catch American tourists unaware. (Especially so with language barriers, “sans plomb” in French is not intuitively petrol/gas/benzo)

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#136

Post by lucideer »

rsynnott wrote: post #63
lucideer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who follows Jeff will know he's US-based, but I still really felt he could've highlighted that fact more in that charging port standards section. The fact that both J1772 & CCS2 are 100% universal in Europe is huge. So much so even Tesla switched to CCS2. This doesn't help Jeff but certainly one less problem for many readers of his article.

> The fact that both J1772 & CCS2 are 100% universal in Europe is huge. Funnily enough, not for the Leaf! Though it will be on the third generation that's coming out this year. The second-gen Leaf (a ten year old design, at this point) that the author of the article bought doesn't have it. The EU only mandates CCS2 in _charging points_; manufacturers can still sell cars without it, though I think Nissan may be the on…

I was more referring to J1772. We don't have NACS in Europe so if you have J1772 you can always charge anywhere.

This does mean Jeff's Leaf would be limited to AC without an adapter, which isn't perfectly ideal, but still better.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#137

Post by wara23arish »

donatj wrote: post #6

Hmm, my friend had a 2015 Leaf, the interior seemed much nicer and more modern than this 2023 model. > There is no 'play/pause' button. Anywhere. At least not on the steering wheel or the display area. You have to go into the music section on the entertainment display, then press the software play/pause button. That's dumb. My new to me 2023 Honda Odyssey has the same stupid issue. It's my first vehicle with a touch…

i think lowering the volume down to zero now constitutes as play/pause

i hate it too

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#138

Post by fusslo »

Bairfhionn wrote: post #24

My Problem was always the Range Anxiety. Until I got an EV and realized it's not really an issue. There is always an App for that (and even on my car the software gets improved in that regard). Infrastructure is getting better, even companies starting to see it as a benefit to have cheap/free chargers at their offices to get people back. I see more and more electric trucks on the roads. It feels good.

is there a term like 'charge anxiety'?

I was debating an electric vehicle in 2023. There are maybe 10 people (out of about 200) at work that have electric cars. My teammate is one of the ten. He wakes up early to get a charger. He tracks down the other owners to ask them to use the charger after lunch. They started a group chat about the chargers.

My local grocery store has a bank of superchargers right in the middle of the parkinglot next to the main road. Some days the bank is full and teslas hang out waiting, but they have to wait half in the road to make sure they're close enough to be next in line.

My apartment complex has 2 chargers, and we get people coming in who don't live in the complex to use them. People wait next to the strangers to be sure to get the charger before walking home for the night.

This kind of social interaction and situations gives me huge anxiety.

I get gas once a week, dont wait in line, always works, don't talk to anyone, and I'm gone in less than 5 minutes.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#139

Post by FirmwareBurner »

arpinum wrote: post #112
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I said repair regulations are needed for all cars not just EVs.

The EU did put in regulations, but they did the opposite and essentially mandated DRM. They want to prevent owners from turning off nanny devices or overriding pollution controls.

Can you share what car repairability regulations did the EU put into place? Because following the posts of EV Clinic it seems like the opposite.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#140

Post by spiffytech »

blitzar wrote: post #71
sillyfluke wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't really follow the secondhand EV market, but it seems to me firsthand buyers are still taking on considerable risk due to the range situation. People who have bought them abroad are sometimes advised to keep the battery between 20%-80-90% full. Following this advice, one person I know told me if they drive like they did their old car they have to recharge after roughly 170 miles, which is super annoying for them…

> recharge after roughly 170 miles ... these cars won't be dead weight or dirt cheap The average car journey is 8 miles. Being an average with a finite lower limit of 0 it is skewed higher by the people who for various reasons drive long distances. You don't need a 1,000 mile range to get to the shops at the end of the street. It helps, but not that much.

The magnitude of person-to-person variation makes it tough to get signal out of averages.

I read a blogger say a 40-mile trip is exceptionally log for him, so why worry about EV range?

Meanwhile we put 160 miles on our EV yesterday doing ordinary errands that all got stacked on the same day. 100+ mile days happen a few times a month for us¹.

That 160 miles is 65% of our 0–100 range, or 108% of the 20–80 range. And we have a level 1 charger, so it'll take 26 hours in the driveway to recoup that charge.

¹ In my area a normal daily commute is 30–40 miles round-trip. Throw in some extra errands, or two people sharing a car, and you don't have to be an outlier to routinely have 100+ mile days.

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