The craziest part is that they are not liable of anything apparently under the basically non existent American privacy laws.
"Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B
131–140 of 286 posts
Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B
#132This system was designed and implemented by engineers who committed code in a source control system with their name attached, and the changes were requested by product managers in tickets in the ticketing system with their name attached. Those engineers and product managers should be personally liable for an equivalent % of their annual salary as Facebook is liable for a % of its annual revenue.
How would the EU fine American engineers who live and are paid in America?
They would fine them by having a court case and saying they are guilty and owe money. Collecting on it would be awfully difficult, but you know, people do like trips to Europe.
That said, I think fining the company seems pretty plausible. They won't, but it'd be nice if they did.
Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B
#133Sounds like you're affected if you have either Facebook or Instagram app installed on an Android phone, you're signed into your account, and you don't have anything set up to block tracking pixels and the like (though that last part I'm not as sure of). Getting through VPNs and incognito mode are the most egregious parts of this offense, though. I think some people are under the impression that's a way to act like yo…
And if you actually leave the Facebook or instagram apps running in the background.
Some people hate apps running in the background and they terminate all apps as soon as they are done using them.
Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
The EU doesn’t play around in this realm. 1.2 billion fine for an earlier incident: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2023/12-billion-euro-fi...
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> Meta has suffered zero liability in the EU. I guess because Zuc gives money to transgenders or something.
I'm sorry, but are you a real person?
Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B
#135This system was designed and implemented by engineers who committed code in a source control system with their name attached, and the changes were requested by product managers in tickets in the ticketing system with their name attached. Those engineers and product managers should be personally liable for an equivalent % of their annual salary as Facebook is liable for a % of its annual revenue.
I like the idea, but I see no reason to shield the management that demanded this of the rank and file. Accountability should go all the way up the chain.
Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B
#136Reading though this, is it correct to say that they could've done a fetch(" /id= " rel="nofollow">http://localhost: /id= "), but then it would show up very conspicuously in the logs, and you couldn't talk to UDP ports with it?
I read this:
> Android has many flaws, but in the relevant part here, it’s specifically designed to prevent apps from doing this — from listening to local ports like localhost.
to mean that they could not do it via HTTP, and instead had to circumvent Android's privacy measures via WebRTC.
Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't fully agree because the way I see it, that is in a way scapegoating the company executives. Are they responsible? Probably, yes, they set the direction of the company and give the orders at the highest level. But we the engineers and designers are the ones actually implementing what is probably a fairly nebulous order at the highest levels into something concrete. They deign that there should be evil created,…
Do you also take personal responsibility for your company’s hiring practices, investment strategy, and marketing content? None of that would exist without you. I think anyone would agree that there’s a level of flagrantly where individuals should feel culpability and make the right choices (“write software to prescribe poison to groups we don’t like”). But something like this? Two apps establishing a comms channel? H…
As a software developer no I don't feel responsible for those things, because I don't have any involvement with them as part of my job. But the people who work in HR, finance, and marketing are responsible for those things.
I agree that the junior engineer implementing a localhost listener on Android might not understand what it is going to be used for and might not even think to ask. But somewhere, a senior engineer or PM or manager knows, and yes as you say that's the point where responsibility can be assigned, and increasingly up the line from there.
Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd agree at a personal/moral level there is equal responsibility. However that doesn't recognise both the power and risk/reward imbalance here. If you, as an employee did this - maybe you'd add a few dollars to your stock options over time. If your Zuck - that's potentially billions. And in terms of downside - if you are Zuck and stop it in the company - there is no comeback - if you are an engineer blowing the whis…
Sounds like a typical blurring of responsibility through bureaucracy. "If Zak is a billionaire, then he is responsible, but since he essentially did nothing wrong, then no one will be held accountable." Total nonsense. There are specific crimes, and there are specific people who planned this crimes, specific peoples who ordered them to be carried out, and who carried them out. And these people should be held accounta…
> if your employees, without your knowledge, somehow decided that the only way they could reach their targets was to commit a crime, why should you be held responsible for that?
Thats where "known or should have known" becomes relevant. It's your company, it's your responsiblity to know what they are doing.
Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B
#139This system was designed and implemented by engineers who committed code in a source control system with their name attached, and the changes were requested by product managers in tickets in the ticketing system with their name attached. Those engineers and product managers should be personally liable for an equivalent % of their annual salary as Facebook is liable for a % of its annual revenue.
How would the EU fine American engineers who live and are paid in America?
Can't America fine them? Surely this is illegal there too?
Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B
#140I'm guessing I'll get down-voted for this, but what's to stop any browser/executable from trolling through /proc on Linux and knowing about what every process running as you is doing?