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In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

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Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#131

Post by rjbwork »

bugh wrote: post #117
mrsilencedogood wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well of course it's more complicated. But these 2 broad strokes do resonate with me as a meaningful bucketing. There are some people I see DMs from and go "ooh" and some people I see DMs from and go "well there goes my morning hand-holding them through something they should already both know and have internalized".

> “well there goes my morning hand-holding them through something they should already both know and have internalized". So where you work everyone works on the same things every day and the same patterns? Sounds pretty circular if everyone just lives by the subset of understanding you prefer. This is what smacks truest from my experience; companies stagnant because of workers like you focus on memorized maintenance r…

This is almost delusionally disconnected from the types of dysfunction I've seen among juniors after years of working at the same company where they should have learned some basic shit like being able to e.g. properly read a stack trace, diagnose an issue by reading/searching logs, not storing secrets in git, etc.

I'm always willing to work with people on code/system design - in fact it's my favorite part of my job when someone says "how can I do this beter?" - but it is excruciating to have to handhold someone through a basic diagnosis routine for or provide the same basic feedback about logging or security the nth time.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#132

Post by neilv »

In the kind of "high-stress work environment" they're talking about (it's a dysfunctional, toxic kind), the only example they give for value of relationships is getting recommendations afterwards.

Relationships can also help you mitigate the dysfunctional environment while you're there, with huge benefits to your health.

(Don't underestimate when people say stress kills you: it's not a video game health meter that recovers quickly and fully at the end of of an encounter; that bad stress is damage from which you never fully recover.)

But also be aware that supportive relationship oases in a dysfunctional environment can also slow leaving a place where you really-really should.

Some people need to be told to be more loyal than they are, but some people need to be told when loyalty is killing us and not doing any good. (Seriously, your supportive colleagues are probably bittersweet glad to see you escape, and you leaving might even give attention/leverage of management to help fix org problems, or encourage colleagues to expedite their own escape.)

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#133

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

kentrado wrote: post #30
eloisius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an interviewer it's too hard to tell if a candidate was indeed a victim of circumstance, like an acquisition that turned into a shitty job, or if they are just a disgruntled malcontent who will also be disgruntled and malcontent at your company. The downside of hiring a malcontent is huge. An interviewer can assume that most quality candidates are also aware of this dynamic and will wisely choose to represent the…

So you are saying it is better if the candidate lies. Otherwise you will be forced to reject him because there might be a possibility that the problem was him. Seems like you are hiring the best liars. Or at least the best at playing an arbitrary game of saying and not saying the correct things that won't trigger a rejection. At this point, are you even needed? Maybe we could replace the interview process with a lott…

Nobody is asking you to lie. Your previous job and coworkers may suck enough to pull watermelons through a garden hose sideways but the job interview is not about your previous job or coworkers. It's about showcasing how awesome _you_ are and how well _you_ accomplished whatever you managed to accomplish despite the suck. Keep the gripes to yourself even if for no other reason that it takes time away from tooting your own horn in a time limited situation.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#134

Post by aianus »

pm90 wrote: post #97
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's your choice. It's not a bad idea to answer "why are you leaving your current job" with "i'm looking for greater opportunities to [the opposite of why you are leaving your job]" and people can read between the lines AND have less of the concerns they would if you went guns blazing on the bridges behind you

You can be honest about why your previous employer wasn’t the right fit without burning bridges. I really dislike all of this “reading between the lines” aren’t Americans supposed to be direct?

Similar to goblin mode in dating you should 100% be yourself but only if you already have money and don't particularly need a given job. This works best when you already have a job.

You want the shitty PHB megacorps to reject you so you don't win to lose by getting a job you are going to hate.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#135

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

pm90 wrote: post #98
pydry wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The culture is unhealthy but unless you are in a position of power you have to play along.

Disagree. Change can start with anyone. Often its inspiring to see someone buckle the trend and “be real”.

trust me, as someone who is probably genetically incapable of refusing the temptation to "be real", it's exhausting and often doesn't lead to good outcomes. but i'm glad it's possible that i inspire otherwise-quiet people with my bad attitude.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#136

Post by EGreg »

jbverschoor wrote: post #107
alphazard wrote: post #57

In software, often the people are the source of stress. Building the software is easy to many in this industry, and the vast majority of the value produced came from someone who thought creating it was easy. Being surrounded by rock stars all doing something they find easy is sublime, and I encourage everyone to seek out those environments. They exist and are fleeting. The stress comes from people who are bad at what…

100% agree and is exhausting. The stress is just not that apparent in environments where projects tend to fail anyway, or environments that provide lots of job stability. You basically get paid for being present instead of actually produce something useful. I don’t understand why one would want to work in such an environment, except when you’re soft-retiring / soft-quitting

Oh man I wish I knew I was being paid to be present and available

In my last full time job I worked for a tech consulting company that rented us out to teams at financial instutions that managed insane amounts of money. This was in 2021 before AI was common. I worked remotely, and the first month didn’t do anything — just waited for the corporate laptop to arrive etc. Then I worked 2 hours a day.

But I had to put 8 hours in the timesheets, and select what projects I was working on. And I always had a feeling of guilt about that, like I was helping my consulting company charge hours that I wasn’t really working. I just kept finishing the tasks I was assigned in the sprints, and then there was nothing more to do. I didn’t aggressively ask for more work, just took on what others did. This went on for a while, and I felt guilty. Working on my startups in the meantime, like those people who work multiple jobs. I didn’t realize this happens a lot.

On one of my calls with my immediate manager I mentioned I had some downtime — and he was like “oh you have downtime? That’s not good.” And then it became his problem. And I didnt get more work but from then on I felt this tension with him, and probably others downstream of it. Nothing concrete, but just the feeling slightly changed, for a few weeks. So I nicely resigned after 6 months, saying to HR that investors funded my startups but they want me to work on them fulltime. So I left on good terms.

I regret it, though, in retrospect. Because of my ethics I missed out on income that could have helped my family and people around me. That was a great salary for remote work 2 hours a day, and I would have invested over half of it in crypto and probably 3xed it all by now. I only left because my ethics bothered me, but I learned later how often “full time” jobs really aren’t. Like, at all!

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#137

Post by mushroomba »

tacitusarc wrote: post #119
disambiguation wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a very specific perspective, I take it you're the "Live to Work" kind of person?

I think this characterization implies a dichotomy that bothers me. Work is certainly not my top priority, but I spend a ton of my time on my job, and I would like to feel fulfilled and happy doing it. Have capable colleagues that you can trust to pull their weight is a big part of that. In general, I’ve found that the clock-in, clock-out types seem to take their mediocrity as almost a badge of honor, with this feelin…

I would say that you are in a unique place of privilege in that regard. I believe the common experience of many people is that any task, if it be work, cannot be pleasing. The requirement to continue to complete any task in exchange for the necessities of life induces a disparity of spirit that will dull even the most hedonic of activities. The snuffing out of the freedom to choose to do the task is what induces pain into the experience.

For my part, I choose to have a good attitude about work. I am grateful for the opportunity to work. I do the best I can so that I can be proud of how I have spent my life. But I would never expect any job or any work to provide me fulfillment or happiness.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#138

Post by jimkleiber »

I try to apply this advice to almost all relationships. It reminds me of the famous quote, "Be nice to everyone you meet because they are fighting a battle you know nothing about, and that I can say from experience." [0]

I see life as emotional combat, that I'm always dealing with so many conflicting conflicts at the same time that I'm trying my best to manage everything and so is everyone else. It has been helping me SO much just to frame life this way.

[0]: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/williams-fighting-battle-q...

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#139

Post by Wonnk13 »

aianus wrote: post #134
pm90 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be honest about why your previous employer wasn’t the right fit without burning bridges. I really dislike all of this “reading between the lines” aren’t Americans supposed to be direct?

Similar to goblin mode in dating you should 100% be yourself but only if you already have money and don't particularly need a given job. This works best when you already have a job. You want the shitty PHB megacorps to reject you so you don't win to lose by getting a job you are going to hate.

I'm not sure I actually want to know, but what the hell is "goblin mode"?

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#140

Post by buuuutb »

rjbwork wrote: post #131
bugh wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “well there goes my morning hand-holding them through something they should already both know and have internalized". So where you work everyone works on the same things every day and the same patterns? Sounds pretty circular if everyone just lives by the subset of understanding you prefer. This is what smacks truest from my experience; companies stagnant because of workers like you focus on memorized maintenance r…

This is almost delusionally disconnected from the types of dysfunction I've seen among juniors after years of working at the same company where they should have learned some basic shit like being able to e.g. properly read a stack trace, diagnose an issue by reading/searching logs, not storing secrets in git, etc. I'm always willing to work with people on code/system design - in fact it's my favorite part of my job w…

You don’t have to. You chose the work, the employer.

In my experience your special literacy is everywhere these days. Lots of unemployed with your skills.

Excruciating dealing with colleagues like you that think we come hear to read your intrusive thoughts about others effort. Whole lot of contexts you fall short in.

More sad little man needing validation for his prior effort to get where he is. Eh, tough. Like I said your skills are everywhere; good job you’re a VHS copy of a VHS copy?

Great work following the social trend!

…Aside from configuration of machines others make, with software others make, what have you done that obliges us to bow and courtesy and earn your validation?

This website is a toxic mess. Am psyched the world has seen enough of software dev now to understand it’s real economic value, and the end of ZIRP pruning tech of empty economic effort.

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