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The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

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Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#131

Post by jagermo »

dpatterbee wrote: post #7
whytevuhuni wrote: post #3

They’re not saints, especially with the games distribution platform monopoly they’re sitting on top of, but... I really think Valve have become the de-facto owners of the “don’t be evil” motto nowadays, even if they don’t advertise themselves as such.

Steam isn't really a monopoly though, everyone is free to use whatever marketplace they choose on PC. Steam's just the best one.

And there are tons. Epic, EA, Ubi Play - they are pretty shitty.

Gog is the only one I would say is on par with Steam, but they have a different niche. Still, Valve is on top and not because they hinder the competition, but because the competition likes to shoot their feet. Often.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#132

Post by jagermo »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #2

I'm out of the gaming platform loop but assume the timing of this post is related to the Switch 2 announcement? Others have suggested the Switch 2 is one of the best endorsements for buying a Steam Deck. (Not really a gamer, despite having written games, ha ha, but I picked up a Steam Deck a couple years ago to test a game I ported to it — and was duly impressed.)

For me, the switch is the only console I trust to leave my kids alone with. Nintendo builds great games for kids, but you pay for them. I mean, launch games like Mario Odysee and Breath of the Wild are still sold at full price, years later.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#133

Post by toxicunderGroov »

benterix wrote: post #117
dtech wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's unlikely to happen with Valve's ownership structure

He can sell his share at any moment.

If he has enough, and his kids will have enough he does not strike me as a guy that wants more for the sake of amassing it, and risk the loss of actual legacy.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#134

Post by nothercastle »

tossandthrow wrote: post #24
danso wrote: post #15

Sounds like the Switch 2 might be a bit more powerful and similarly priced to the 3-year-old Deck. But even if Switch’s hardware feature set was substantially better, Steam’s much cheaper (and more expansive) library is still the killer feature. I don’t think the Switch 1’s Zelda launch title has ever been discounted lower than $40 despite being 8 years old. On Steam, virtually every top title will be 50% within 2 ye…

My impression is that the general quality of games on steam is sub par the quality of, eg., Zelda. Even with a steam deck, I am probably going to get the Switch2, mostly because I can lower my head on in-game profiteering, which is increasingly prevalent on steam games.

A lot of games need ui redesign for hand held controllers. That’s often the biggest issue.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#135

Post by protimewaster »

lolinder wrote: post #126
protimewaster wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they were maintaining it through anticompetitive means, sure, but I've never seen anyone claim that they are They did get sued for having "anticompetitive restraints on pricing" and "Federal Judge John C. Coughenour ruled that those claims were credible and that Steam gamers can claim compensation for Valve's illegal monopoly, but gamers, unlike developers, must file individual arbitrations to do so." So, yes, i…

I did somehow miss this lawsuit, but this is an advertisement for the law firm, not actual documentation of the ruling, because the ruling hasn't been issued yet. The wording is very precise here: the judge ruled that those claims were credible and allowed the case to move forward. That is not the same thing as the judge siding with the plaintiffs.

That's true, but it's definitely not the case that nobody has accused Valve of being anticompetitive. They have a variety of plausibly anticompetitive practices and accusations.

It's also possible that some gamers did actually get money from Valve via arbitration, so they could've been found to have acted in an anticompetitive way, separately from the lawsuit. I've not been able to find anyone specifically saying that they did the arbitration, though.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#136

Post by TehCorwiz »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #124
michaelsshaw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy that, according to people like you, we've always been doing merit-based hiring and still the computer workforce is disproportionately white and male. Nothing fishy there at all.

Tbf if your graduating class is 89% male, and your declared tech majors are 80% male, the issue isn't necessarily on the workforce. It's clear we need to start much earlier in exposing tech to potential other audiences. But the US hates teachers (and now, education Nas a whole) and can't think long term anymore. So these are merely pipe dreams as of now.

There are factors that affect the education pipeline as well. Representation can make it appear as if some groups aren't welcome. Read about the Scully effect to see how simple representation (in fiction no less!) changed the number of women who grew up watching the X-Files who chose a field of science. Harassment during education has caused candidates to change majors. I've seen this one happen IRL to a friend. She ended up pursuing her software dev career independently of a college degree because the environment was so toxic.

The problem isn't just hiring, but helping hiring will help with the other two by addressing those cultural problems.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#137

Post by glenstein »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #125
glenstein wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Breaking the seal and demonstrating the capabilities, and getting it into the hands of consumers set the conditions for the Steam Deck's success. The Steam Deck exists because the Steam Machine existed, and it's in this context that the Steam Machine succeeded. You don't need overnight instant success for the program itself to succeed.

Dark souls exists because Demons Soul existed. But if you ask Sony or even FromSoft, they'd never say Demons Soul was a success. It just didn't bomb so dosasteroisly as to prematurely cancel an entire sub-genre. You can have disappointments and even failures while Also admitting they lead to successes by not giving up. That was all I was saying.

I don't agree that Fromsoft and Valve were operating from the same definition of success in those respective cases.

I also don't think it makes sense to suggest that the Fromsoft timeline starts at Dark Souls. My understanding is their first game was Kings Field, which had modest commercial aspirations compared to the Dark Souls franchise.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#138

Post by jerf »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #127
jerf wrote: post #57

I have a first-gen Switch, still in active rotation. My kids are asking me why we don't hack it. My answer has been, what does a hacked Switch do that my Steam Deck doesn't already do, without hacking? I mean, if you're going to sail the seven seas and yo-ho-ho, not that I've been encouraging that, the answer isn't even "Play Switch 1 games", the Steam Deck does that better too! And at least we can't accidentally hoo…

Local multiplayer on steam is borderline unusable. A software engineer can (temporarily) get it working after hours of diagnosis. Compare that to the switch.

"Local multiplayer on Steam" has no referent, because Steam does not do local multiplayer at all. It's all up to the game. I've played plenty of games that way, Steam and the Steam Deck add no particular problem with it.

While I wouldn't pin this on Steam qua Steam as a program, it is a fair complaint about the ecosystem. I have some games that are as flexible as the Switch about being docked. I have some games that can be docked but can't handle any resolution changes. I have some games you just plain can't switch. I have some games that you can switch from using the physical Steam Deck controls to an Xbox controller seamlessly, complete with the in-game hint graphics changing to match the controller in use. I have some games that have to be restarted to pick up a new controller. At least a few months ago I had one particular combination of games that if I played them in sequence would somehow permanently render XBox controllers non-functional until I rebooted the Steam Deck, though that is certainly an exception.

The Switch does handle the Switch-ing in the Switch name better than the Steam Deck, and it is a structural advantage that Valve will have a hard time addressing in a practical way. That said, my family does use the Steam Deck as a de facto Switch 1.5, as a thing that is used fairly evenly between "docked" and "in hand", and it is functional enough to work, even if it is undeniably not as slick.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#139

Post by jerf »

keyringlight wrote: post #77
jerf wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree that the Switch's really big feature at this point is that it is where Nintendo games appear, and in that family-friendly-but-still-high-quality niche they are still worth chasing if you want them. I don't know how you get from there to "games on steam are sub par quality" because at this point, everything else is on Steam, so calling the rest of the Steam library "sub par" is effectively calling the en…

As far as quality goes, the main things steam looks for [0] to release is that it launches on the platforms you say it's available for, and that it matches the store page you've made for it. Presumably it'd have to be absolutely malicious for them to get involved past that [0] https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/review_process

I would submit that in terms of whether a library is "sub par" we are generally looking towards the top end rather than the bottom.

The Nintendo Switch lowered the bar substantially for what it takes to get on that platform, and broadly speaking, I support that, I'm not complaining about it.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#140

Post by randmeerkat »

PaulHoule wrote: post #34
glenstein wrote: post #4

It truly is, and it's the culmination of a long history of development to get to this point. Back in, I want to say 2016 or so, we had Steam Machines, which were a series of hardware partnerships with various vendors for a console-style form factor of essentially PC hardware running on the first version of Steam OS. It was an incredible idea, but at the time rather frustratingly, I think some people came down with wh…

The Deck is so transformative that if Microsoft were serious about XBOX at all, the next XBOX would be a handheld.

> The Deck is so transformative that if Microsoft were serious about XBOX at all, the next XBOX would be a handheld.

Or they’d realize that the Deck is successful because it’s open and bring Steam to the Xbox.

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