Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll • Hacker News Board

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#131

Post by csense » Sun, Jul 22, 2012, 9:40 PM UTC

georgespencer wrote: post #15

The patent is here: http://www.google.com/patents/US6857067?printsec=abstract#v=... I'd encourage you all to read it. The majority of the summary, related art and claims are related to "smart cards". That is: a user plugs a smart card into their computer, which has one half of a licence key on it, and it then verifies this with a server either over LAN or the web. There are a couple of broad claims which could, if up…

I don't remember the details, but I read somewhere that a US court has ruled that only patent attorneys can understand patents.

If you're not a patent attorney, and you read a patent, and determine that you don't violate it, and later the court finds out that you did, then you're on the hook for 3x the damages you would be if you hadn't read the patent.

Needless to say, this is totally f'ed up.

But that doesn't change the ruling.

As a consequence, it's probably better for us techies to bury our head in the sand when it comes to searching out patents that exist. Assume that if you're somewhat successful, patent trolls will attack you, and the best option you have may be treating the "protection money" as a cost of doing business.

Practical things we can do:

(1) Bring the issue to the attention of your Representatives/Senators. Focus on your role as a small-business job creator; politicians love that particular turn of phrase.

(2) When you're Google- or Facebook-successful, remember what the little guys are going through, and go after the patent trolls to improve things for our entire industry!

(3) Donate to people like EFF.

(4) If you pay "protection money", try to make sure the deal includes clauses that let you back out later when you have more resources. For example, a clause that says you'll pay the troll, but neither admit nor deny that you violate the patent. That way, when you're small you pay them to go away; when you're successful enough, you might be able to sue them and recover your protection payments.

(5) Become a patent troll yourself. It seems like a foolproof business model, at least until the law changes.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#132

Post by csense » Sun, Jul 22, 2012, 10:04 PM UTC

thenomad wrote: post #125

I think the patent trolls might have chosen the wrong target on this one. You can get away with suing Microsoft without too much PR fallout. No-one is going to get that upset. But attacking a much-beloved company with a much-beloved founder with a suit that could prevent millions of people from playing their favourite game? I'd expect a certain amount of, shall we say, "third party action". Said patent troll might wa…

PR only matters to them if their relationship with their customers is consensual.

This is not the case with a patent troll.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#133

Post by csense » Sun, Jul 22, 2012, 10:07 PM UTC

codeka wrote: post #13

How is this even possible? Firstly, they've spelled the name of the infringing product incorrectly. Secondly, it doesn't even do what they're saying it does. OK, I mean, it's possible , but is anyone taking this seriously? Does this lawsuit even stand a chance?

It's probably going to cost a gazillion dollars for Mojang to defend against, since patent lawyers are expensive.

The troll can probably determine how small Mojang really is and just try to use legal procedures to make things as expensive as possible. No need to actually fight for real (as they presumably did against Microsoft.)

This is why we should have a mandatory award of attorney's fees to the winner in IP cases. It would make lawyers more willing to take Mojang's side on a contingency basis (they only get paid if Mojang wins).

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#134

Post by csense » Sun, Jul 22, 2012, 10:09 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #114

paraschopra wrote: post #3

How do CEOs of patent trolls sleep at night?

You presume all people have a sense of empathy, but many do not.

Many people who claim they have a sense of empathy, could probably lose it or deal with the occasional conscience pang, if a seven-to-nine figure sum was involved.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#135

Post by ktizo » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 12:40 AM UTC

eps wrote: post #50

ktizo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are legally obliged to for any sales to the US territories. So if you are in the US and buy Minecraft, then they are exporting software to the US and have to comply with relevant law and any trade agreements between Sweden and the US.

"legally obliged" as per which country's law? Also, depending on how one views it, it's not them exporting , but rather their customers importing bought software.

It is always both, not one perspective or the other. You can't export something without it being imported to somewhere.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#136

Post by jahewson » Mon, Jul 23, 2012, 9:06 AM UTC

dedward wrote: post #129

jahewson wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite possibly, but it gets worse: judging from Natsu's comment about patent suits being federal, and the trolls being based in Texas, it looks like it's almost impossible to avoid being sued in Texas, whether or not you do any business there, as long as you do business somewhere in the US.

I'll defer to experts on the patent issue, but in principle, if you are quick to take measures to avoid doing business with people in states that cause you trouble as soon as they bring it up, it will very likely give you much better chances in court, and much more favor with whoever is deciding your fate, especially if it's international.

Patents are federal law, not state law, which is the basic point here. It seems very dangerous to think that you can dodge federal law by avoiding doing business in a specific state, and I should think that the jury would be instructed as such. An attempt to state-dodge might even be seen as indicative of an awareness of wrongdoing.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#137

Post by nraynaud » Thu, Jul 26, 2012, 11:31 PM UTC

dedward wrote: post #128

nraynaud wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a civil lawsuit (x has to give money to y because he created a damage), not criminal. If they deem the trial fair, whatever the underlaying law was, they will enforce the decision.

If the business is in Sweden, it would have to go to court in Sweden, would it not? Does Sweden actually allow judges to have a look at a foreign decision and then just declare their ruling, no trial, nothing? I suspect not (eager to learn if otherwise)

I think there are international treaties for that, to avoid having a re-trial. They rubber-stamp the foreign decision, and it becomes national stuff (still talking about civil).