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Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

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Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#121

Post by rprasad »

jahewson wrote: post #104
rprasad wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are referring to a "choice of forum" clause (which is distinct from a "choice of jurisdiction clause"). Choice of forum determines where any disputes are held. Choice of jurisdiction determines what state's laws apply (if the dispute involves a matter of state law).

I don't think so, I was suggesting that a company could simply not do business with anyone in an undesirable location (e.g. Texas), and have that as part of the EULA, but with some proactive form of enforcement such as a drop-down, much like those "enter your birthday" age-checks, as passively adding it to the EULA text might not be good enough.

That doesn't work. Putting it in the EULA is not enough. You would actuallly have to reject customers with Texas addresses.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#122

Post by Natsu »

georgespencer wrote: post #15

The patent is here: http://www.google.com/patents/US6857067?printsec=abstract#v=... I'd encourage you all to read it. The majority of the summary, related art and claims are related to "smart cards". That is: a user plugs a smart card into their computer, which has one half of a licence key on it, and it then verifies this with a server either over LAN or the web. There are a couple of broad claims which could, if up…

Wow, this is crazy. Basically covers nearly any way of phoning home to see if someone is a licensed user, so long as you provide updated license data (whatever that means). Look at claim #1:

> A system for preventing unauthorized access to electronic data on an electronic device, the system comprising: a portable licensing medium configured to communicate with the electronic device and to store license data, the license data configured to be used by the electronic device to determine whether to allow access to the electronic data; and a registration authority configured to communicate with the electronic device, the registration authority having verification data for verifying the license data stored on the licensing medium, wherein the registration authority provides updated license data for the licensing medium.

So an infringing device must contain all of the following: a 'portable' licensing medium (dependent claims 20 & 23-26 make it clear that anything from CDs to RAM qualify for that medium; though RAM is really stretching the "portable" requirement) which stores license data, it must use the license data on there to decide whether or not you can access the data, there must be a registration authority that communicates with the device, that authority must have verification data that allows it to verify the data from the client device, and the authority must provide updated license data.

Funny thing is that I can find a lot, if not all, of the elements in a computer virus from 1986. I wonder if they mentioned it as prior art? :)

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110127/23533212868/one-ea...

Problem is this patent was filed in Feb 26, 2001, and there wasn't as much phoning-home to licensing servers/updating license data done back then, though I'd imagine someone can find something.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#123

Post by jahewson »

rprasad wrote: post #121
jahewson wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so, I was suggesting that a company could simply not do business with anyone in an undesirable location (e.g. Texas), and have that as part of the EULA, but with some proactive form of enforcement such as a drop-down, much like those "enter your birthday" age-checks, as passively adding it to the EULA text might not be good enough.

That doesn't work. Putting it in the EULA is not enough. You would actuallly have to reject customers with Texas addresses.

Quite possibly, but it gets worse: judging from Natsu's comment about patent suits being federal, and the trolls being based in Texas, it looks like it's almost impossible to avoid being sued in Texas, whether or not you do any business there, as long as you do business somewhere in the US.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#124

Post by nraynaud »

fchollet wrote: post #58
DrJokepu wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can stop the distribution in the United Stares. In addition, Swedish courts would probably honor the decision of the US court.

Swedish courts would not honor such a ruling if it were to be, since it would be against European law (there are no software patents in Europe). Generally court decisions almost never have international validity (especially business related ones).

this is a civil lawsuit (x has to give money to y because he created a damage), not criminal. If they deem the trial fair, whatever the underlaying law was, they will enforce the decision.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#125

Post by thenomad »

I think the patent trolls might have chosen the wrong target on this one.

You can get away with suing Microsoft without too much PR fallout. No-one is going to get that upset.

But attacking a much-beloved company with a much-beloved founder with a suit that could prevent millions of people from playing their favourite game?

I'd expect a certain amount of, shall we say, "third party action". Said patent troll might want to hire more phone operators. And PR guys.

And security personnel.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#126

Post by DanBC »

ceejayoz wrote: post #100
DanBC wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the decision has flip-flopped a few times, but at the moment Microsoft has settled. ( http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-05/microsoft-settles-f... ) MS has lawyers, and money, and time, and thus for them to lose is concerning. (Not saying anything about the applicability of this patent to Mojang.)

Defending a patent suit costs millions. Settling may simply have been cheaper, while still giving a big payday to the troll.

They spent millions defending it, the case lasted 8 years.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#127

Post by dedward »

DrJokepu wrote: post #30
Kiro wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what happens when they don't have a legal entity in the US? Who will enforce it?

They can stop the distribution in the United Stares. In addition, Swedish courts would probably honor the decision of the US court.

No offense meant, but where does this idea come from? I hope it's not common - US Court decisions are valid in the US. Period.

Anything else is an international thing, and unless covered by treaties signed into law between countries, courts from one country never just honour some other countrie's legal system.

Extradition is possible on crimes where both countries agree it's a crime and generally have an extradition treaty, or policy for such requests, but to think that the US courts are somehow global is factually incorrect.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#128

Post by dedward »

nraynaud wrote: post #124
fchollet wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swedish courts would not honor such a ruling if it were to be, since it would be against European law (there are no software patents in Europe). Generally court decisions almost never have international validity (especially business related ones).

this is a civil lawsuit (x has to give money to y because he created a damage), not criminal. If they deem the trial fair, whatever the underlaying law was, they will enforce the decision.

If the business is in Sweden, it would have to go to court in Sweden, would it not? Does Sweden actually allow judges to have a look at a foreign decision and then just declare their ruling, no trial, nothing? I suspect not (eager to learn if otherwise)

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#129

Post by dedward »

jahewson wrote: post #123
rprasad wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't work. Putting it in the EULA is not enough. You would actuallly have to reject customers with Texas addresses.

Quite possibly, but it gets worse: judging from Natsu's comment about patent suits being federal, and the trolls being based in Texas, it looks like it's almost impossible to avoid being sued in Texas, whether or not you do any business there, as long as you do business somewhere in the US.

I'll defer to experts on the patent issue, but in principle, if you are quick to take measures to avoid doing business with people in states that cause you trouble as soon as they bring it up, it will very likely give you much better chances in court, and much more favor with whoever is deciding your fate, especially if it's international.

Re: Mojang, makers of Minecraft, sued by patent troll

#130

Post by neutronicus »

gnaritas wrote: post #61
DrJokepu wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can stop the distribution in the United Stares. In addition, Swedish courts would probably honor the decision of the US court.

Stop distribution? With what, magic? Hasn't everyone learned by now that you can't stop distribution of digital data?

They could sure as hell stop mojang getting paid. I don't think they care if people continue to pirate the infringing program.
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