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Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

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Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#131

Post by Kipters »

ghusto wrote: post #30
marcellus23 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, in what sense did it come "for free" in the USA?

In the U.S.A., people use iMessage by default, because they use text messaging. People don't use texts in Europe (we use WhatsApp and similar, but WhatsApp by a long margin). The reason people still use texts in the U.S.A. is up for debate, and it's something I've thought about for a long time.

In Italy, in 2005-2007 text messages were WIDELY used by teenagers in (like me at the time) too - they weren't free but really cheap (4000 for 2€/month) so pretty much everyone used them.

Then a couple years later... gone, replaced by WhatsApp.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#132

Post by mixmastamyk »

ghusto wrote: post #30
marcellus23 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, in what sense did it come "for free" in the USA?

In the U.S.A., people use iMessage by default, because they use text messaging. People don't use texts in Europe (we use WhatsApp and similar, but WhatsApp by a long margin). The reason people still use texts in the U.S.A. is up for debate, and it's something I've thought about for a long time.

What is the functional difference between imessage and whatsapp? I only see a different provider.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#133

Post by happyopossum »

bombcar wrote: post #101
hwbehrens wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a historical artifact -- by the time that iMessage launched, the US was well into the phase of free, unlimited texting, so there was no barrier to "just texting". Since there was also no barrier (in terms of costs, subscriptions, or installation friction) to using iMessage, it was a drop-in upgrade of the user experience for SMS. In contrast, I still have to pay a fee to send SMS messages to my European…

More importantly, most Americas do not text anyone outside of the country, and haven't really ever. So people had no real reason to move off of texting, because it just worked, and Apple's iMessage just looks like texting seamlessly.

> More importantly, most Americas do not text anyone outside of the country, and haven't really ever

As a dual-citizen of Canada and the US, I'd have to say that's massively overgeneralized. Pretty much every Canadian I know regularly texts with Americans (iMessage or not), which means those Americans are texting with people outside of the Country.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#134

Post by jandrewrogers »

retskrad wrote: post #48

I believe the assertion suggesting that iMessage plays a pivotal role in the success of the iPhone and contributes significantly to Apple's business is inaccurate. The iMessage platform, in itself, does not possess an inherent quality that renders the iPhone more appealing to consumers. On the contrary, it is the iPhone's inherent appeal that enhances the attractiveness of iMessage. The prestige of the iPhone imparts…

I also use WhatsApp and Signal as a daily driver. iMessage is legitimately superior to all other messaging platforms I've used, and it isn't close.

iMessage isn't just a text messaging app, it also serves as a shared application fabric. The many iOS objects and apps are integrated into iMessage as first-class things that can be securely shared and seamlessly collaborated on between groups of people over the iMessage backbone. It isn't just group chats but also group content. If you have non-iMessage users in the group then all of this is disabled and it reverts to being a text message app. I know many average people that live in those collaboration features without even really thinking about it because they work so much more seamlessly than the alternatives.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#135

Post by lxgr »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #114
kj99 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d think the EU might want to harmonize regulations around billing calls between countries!

Regulation 2018/1971 limits the price for outgoing calls within the EEA to 0.19 ct/minute (excl. VAT). Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be a limit on incoming calls, though most providers don't charge for incoming calls.

There's no charge for incoming calls from abroad while at home: All EU countries use "caller pays" billing (unlike the US, which historically has used shared cost for mobile phones).

That's why there are prepaid SIMs without a monthly fee and unlimited incoming calls: The caller's operator pays the called operator a termination charge by the minute.

There is an incoming call charge while roaming, the rationale being that the caller doesn't know where you are and needs predictability in pricing (so the called party pays for the leg from their home country to where they are), but the EU has capped that to zero within the EEA.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#136

Post by GeekyBear »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #125
GeekyBear wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone The Android ecosystem didn't have a $399 Android device in 2016 that is still getting first party security updates today. The 2016 iPhone SE has worked out to ~$50 per supported year.

Non techie people who buy phones in the real world don't care about stuf they can't see or feel or don't understand, like long SW updates, since it's not like Androids stop working once you stop getting updates. They do care about stuff the can actually see, like having big bright high resolution OLLED display, not that dim low-res display on the SE pulled straight out of a 2008 parts bin. Especially that phones are…

> Non techie people who buy phones in the real world don't care about stuf they can't see or feel or don't understand

Non techie folks care when their insecure phone allows something as important as their bank account to be hacked.

The original Google Pixel also came out in 2016, and was completely dropped from support at the end of 2019.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#137

Post by pmontra »

Kipters wrote: post #131
ghusto wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the U.S.A., people use iMessage by default, because they use text messaging. People don't use texts in Europe (we use WhatsApp and similar, but WhatsApp by a long margin). The reason people still use texts in the U.S.A. is up for debate, and it's something I've thought about for a long time.

In Italy, in 2005-2007 text messages were WIDELY used by teenagers in (like me at the time) too - they weren't free but really cheap (4000 for 2€/month) so pretty much everyone used them. Then a couple years later... gone, replaced by WhatsApp.

I remember that. Zero Euro is much better than two Euro so SMSes where dropped. We were paying for data anyway.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#138

Post by FirmwareBurner »

GeekyBear wrote: post #136
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non techie people who buy phones in the real world don't care about stuf they can't see or feel or don't understand, like long SW updates, since it's not like Androids stop working once you stop getting updates. They do care about stuff the can actually see, like having big bright high resolution OLLED display, not that dim low-res display on the SE pulled straight out of a 2008 parts bin. Especially that phones are…

> Non techie people who buy phones in the real world don't care about stuf they can't see or feel or don't understand Non techie folks care when their insecure phone allows something as important as their bank account to be hacked. The original Google Pixel also came out in 2016, and was completely dropped from support at the end of 2019.

>Non techie folks care when their insecure phone allows something as important as their bank account to be hacked.

How many times are we gonna play this boogieman card? As if everyone gets their bank account instantly emptied by hackers the moment their Android is a day out of it's support window.

How many times has that actually happened to users of older un-updated Androids in the real world, documented? I know about over half a dozen people with out of date Androids and they seem to still be solvent with their banks accounts intact. One of them is me.

Hackers in the real world wanting to steal your savings are more likely to use phishing to get you to hand over your banking credentials voluntarily, rather than to build some elaborate malware targeting some unpatched flaw in your phone's OS to steal your banking credentials. Not that the latter isn't a risk, but it's being blown way out of proportion.

>The original Google Pixel also came out in 2016, and was completely dropped from support at the end of 2019.

We're talking here about buying modern phones today, not buying phones from the past. Google and Samsung did a 180 recently where they promise 7 years of updates to their lates phones. What argument are you gonna use 6 years from when those phones will still get updates?

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#139

Post by ninjakttty »

happyopossum wrote: post #133
bombcar wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, most Americas do not text anyone outside of the country, and haven't really ever. So people had no real reason to move off of texting, because it just worked, and Apple's iMessage just looks like texting seamlessly.

> More importantly, most Americas do not text anyone outside of the country, and haven't really ever As a dual-citizen of Canada and the US, I'd have to say that's massively overgeneralized. Pretty much every Canadian I know regularly texts with Americans (iMessage or not), which means those Americans are texting with people outside of the Country.

You're not refuting his statement. There are massively way more Americans than Canadians.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#140

Post by eeghyrdcg »

ghaff wrote: post #109
breather wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say imessage (and facetime) is about half of why I use an iphone in the end. It's just very good at communicating with my social network, which predominately uses iphones.

As someone in the US, it's totally irrelevant. I never use Facetime and Imessage vs. SMS is a just don't care. If I occasionally communicate internationally, it's via Whatsapp or Facebook Messenger.

It kind of sounds like you’re saying “as a representative sample of people in the US”. If this is the case you are wrong — plenty of people use these services.

If you’re just saying “you” then sure whatever, I put salsa on my toast.

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