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Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#111

Post by artimaeis »

jerojero wrote: post #21

The usage of iMessage in Europe is vastly inferior to the usage of it in America. I think that was a reasonable argument from Apple and the European Commission agreed. But the thing is, apple obviously wants for people to use iPhones in Europe and to use their services just like in America. But they are now very much aware that this sort of market dominance won't come for free like it does in the USA.

Even in the US it's very rarely used by business, which is what the article cited as the main reason.

> the EU probe found that iMessage falls outside the legislation because it is not widely used by businesses

Apple does offer a specific service for businesses, Apple Messages for Business, but their documentation claims it's actually different from iMessage:

https://register.apple.com/resources/messages/messaging-docu...

> Apple Messages for Business differs from the widely known iMessage by being a business to end-user service. Additionally, the encryption mechanism slightly differs from a traditional iMessage.

Given that businesses can interface with AMfB using APIs rather than the Messages app on an Apple device, it seems that would fall pretty far outside the iMessage gatekeeping definition.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#112

Post by breather »

ghaff wrote: post #109
breather wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say imessage (and facetime) is about half of why I use an iphone in the end. It's just very good at communicating with my social network, which predominately uses iphones.

As someone in the US, it's totally irrelevant. I never use Facetime and Imessage vs. SMS is a just don't care. If I occasionally communicate internationally, it's via Whatsapp or Facebook Messenger.

> I never use Facetime

Do you ever video chat with friends or family? In my experience this is almost entirely over FaceTime, though zoom had its moment there during the lockdown.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#113

Post by currymj »

jerojero wrote: post #21

The usage of iMessage in Europe is vastly inferior to the usage of it in America. I think that was a reasonable argument from Apple and the European Commission agreed. But the thing is, apple obviously wants for people to use iPhones in Europe and to use their services just like in America. But they are now very much aware that this sort of market dominance won't come for free like it does in the USA.

it's too bad, i was hoping the USA could free ride off European regulation. i would like to see an iMessage app for Android.

for me, it's the opposite of the teenager status issues.

rather, a lot of older people seem not capable of understanding the difference between iMessage amd SMS - not colorblind, but they seem to not perceive green vs blue bubbles even after it is pointed out. and this has caused me big practical problems communicating with family due to failed message delivery (both SMS and iMessage).

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#114

Post by Denvercoder9 »

kj99 wrote: post #95
lxgr wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is simply that phone calls across Europe were and are usually not free/included in flat rate plans. Telcos just never found a way to agree on something that makes sense: It's quite common to get unlimited domestic calls, but pay 10-30 cents per minute to a neighboring country. Nobody (other than businesses) actually pays that; people just ended up using WhatsApp for both calls and texts instead. So in a wa…

You’d think the EU might want to harmonize regulations around billing calls between countries!

Regulation 2018/1971 limits the price for outgoing calls within the EEA to 0.19 ct/minute (excl. VAT). Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be a limit on incoming calls, though most providers don't charge for incoming calls.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#115

Post by cozzyd »

breather wrote: post #112
ghaff wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in the US, it's totally irrelevant. I never use Facetime and Imessage vs. SMS is a just don't care. If I occasionally communicate internationally, it's via Whatsapp or Facebook Messenger.

> I never use Facetime Do you ever video chat with friends or family? In my experience this is almost entirely over FaceTime, though zoom had its moment there during the lockdown.

I use a combination of Google Meet and Whatsapp for video calls...

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#116

Post by ghaff »

bombcar wrote: post #101
hwbehrens wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a historical artifact -- by the time that iMessage launched, the US was well into the phase of free, unlimited texting, so there was no barrier to "just texting". Since there was also no barrier (in terms of costs, subscriptions, or installation friction) to using iMessage, it was a drop-in upgrade of the user experience for SMS. In contrast, I still have to pay a fee to send SMS messages to my European…

More importantly, most Americas do not text anyone outside of the country, and haven't really ever. So people had no real reason to move off of texting, because it just worked, and Apple's iMessage just looks like texting seamlessly.

Yeah, as an American who actually knows a fair number of people overseas, there are probably a literal handful of people who I communicate with on a regular basis there and I use a variety of channels but SMS/iMessage works fine one a day-to-day basis for most folks.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#117

Post by mrweasel »

ghusto wrote: post #30
marcellus23 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, in what sense did it come "for free" in the USA?

In the U.S.A., people use iMessage by default, because they use text messaging. People don't use texts in Europe (we use WhatsApp and similar, but WhatsApp by a long margin). The reason people still use texts in the U.S.A. is up for debate, and it's something I've thought about for a long time.

One really weird way that you can see that is looking at Denmark, which has historically been used as a test market for telcos. SMS was practically free when iMessage was announced, not entirely, but enough people had unlimited SMS plans at that time. Denmark was the testing ground for different phones and pricing plans, better to screw up in a market with 5 million people, compared to one with 80 million.

I believe that the "free" SMSs at the time is a pretty big reason why iMessage is huge in Denmark, but not in the countries surrounding us. It's not the biggest messaging platform, that would be Facebook and Facebook messenger, not WhatsApp, Telegram or Signal. It seems like people want Europe to be all in on "alternative" platforms, but it's frequently all Facebook properties.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#118

Post by ghaff »

breather wrote: post #112
ghaff wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in the US, it's totally irrelevant. I never use Facetime and Imessage vs. SMS is a just don't care. If I occasionally communicate internationally, it's via Whatsapp or Facebook Messenger.

> I never use Facetime Do you ever video chat with friends or family? In my experience this is almost entirely over FaceTime, though zoom had its moment there during the lockdown.

No. My friends groups will setup free Zoom calls now and then.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#119

Post by GeekyBear »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #61
troupo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why the the iPhone is still a status symbol among the middle class and richest people in the EU wat? iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android (and has for some time), and since you can get it with your phone subscription for a rather low monthly payment, it hasn't been a status symbol for a decade or more.

>iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android Only flagships, But decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone. Like the Samsung A54 for example. Apple doesn't have ~300 Euro phones with OLED screens in its offer.

> decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone

The Android ecosystem didn't have a $399 Android device in 2016 that is still getting first party security updates today.

The 2016 iPhone SE has worked out to ~$50 per supported year.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#120

Post by threeseed »

tremarley wrote: post #58
retskrad wrote: post #48

I believe the assertion suggesting that iMessage plays a pivotal role in the success of the iPhone and contributes significantly to Apple's business is inaccurate. The iMessage platform, in itself, does not possess an inherent quality that renders the iPhone more appealing to consumers. On the contrary, it is the iPhone's inherent appeal that enhances the attractiveness of iMessage. The prestige of the iPhone imparts…

‘iMessage plays a pivotal role in the success of the iPhone and contributes significantly to Apple's business is inaccurate.’ If you ask many iPhone users why they use an iPhone rather than an Android. They would tell you iMessage first. Many iPhone users won’t even consider an Android, only because of iMessage and no other reason.

> If you ask many iPhone users why they use an iPhone rather than an Android. They would tell you iMessage first.

Likewise if you ask many iPhone users they won't tell you iMessage first.

That's the magic and wonder of meaningless anecdotes.

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