Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 257 posts

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#131

Post by choppaface »

timfsu wrote: post #123
purpleblue wrote: post #69

It's funny that YC is posting this video, because as far as I can tell, YC teaches its founders to keep most of the equity for themselves, and dole out as little equity as possible to their employees. Back during the dotcom days, most employees, from secretaries to engineers, got extremely rich from options when the company IPOed. These days, in order to make a life-changing amount of money at a YC startup as an empl…

As a YC founder, YC doesn't teach founders anything when it comes to how to split equity. The economics you're describing is a function of (overly) high valuations in private markets, which leads to equity grants that don't appreciate very much when liquidity happens. This is great for folks that got in early (founders and early investors) and bad for everyone else.

False. YC will connect you with investors and advisors who will do things like perpetuate a 10% employee pool and a 100x to 1000x multiple between CEO and IC compensation. While YC might not give classes about the provenance of these choices, YC founders will inevitably adopt them as they focus towards growth and sales. All YC has to do is be marginally more competitive with other VCs, who will do dumb shit like clawbacks, dilution, Private Equity sales etc.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#132

Post by singleshot_ »

RandallBrown wrote: post #89
Apocryphon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To dissent from the other answers- thought TPM was Technical Program Manager.

The distinction between a program, project, and product managers seems to be mostly dependent on the company you work at. All the various "PMs" at companies I've worked for have done largely the same jobs that are some mix of managing the project and figuring out new features for the product.

The difference between ongoing operations, a project, a program, and a portfolio are clearly delineated in the Project Management Book of Knowledge, which is usually foundational knowledge for a project manager. If a person tries to practice project management without knowing this stuff, I’d agree with your use of scare quotes.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#134

Post by sumtechguy »

munk-a wrote: post #8
teachrdan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you recommend instead?

Work at a company making a product you believe in and with coworkers that you get along with.

I can not emphasize enough getting along your coworkers and they with you. If you do not it will be even more challenging to get anything done.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#135

Post by ryandrake »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #112
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

An IC variant of this I see: 1. Climb to highest rung that is readily handed out on IC ladder 2. Agree to take on more leadership/management tasks, or even go full-time. (Impact, amirite) 3. After a few years: job hop elsewhere, using your combined tech and management experience 4. Enter at staff/principal, skipping the sometimes brutal process of getting there directly from IC. Like the OP, this exploits the fact th…

Number 2 is easier said than done. I'm currently sitting at that terrible spot where I'm at the top of the IC ladder, and need to become a manager and have direct reports in order to continue climbing, but the dreaded chicken and egg problem prevents it: You need management experience to become (or job hop to be) a manager.

I had the same painful conversation with my boss that a lot of us have had: Became the top subject matter expert on my growing team, team grew to the point where my boss needed to insert a few managers under him, pitched myself for it and ultimately he hired outside the team because he needed someone who had already been a manager. This exact thing has happened in my last three companies.

Very few companies actually have pure IC roles that are truly parallel (in comp and prestige) with the people management ladder.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#136

Post by ryandrake »

siliconc0w wrote: post #10
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

Sadly this is mostly true. It used be at $bigtech you needed to be the equivalent of a senior engineer (L5+) to go into management. This is categorically not the case anymore. TPMs, due to their role, work across orgs and interface more with leadership so they do seem to get a lot more visibility/exposure than normal ICs and do seem to get promoted into leadership positions more easily. My wife is less technical and…

> TPMs, due to their role, work across orgs and interface more with leadership so they do seem to get a lot more visibility/exposure than normal ICs and do seem to get promoted into leadership positions more easily.

TPM here. More cross-org work: Yes. Interface more with leadership: Yes. Visibility/exposure: Yes. Easier promotions? Nope. Not in my experience.

There are fewer of us, therefore our org chart trees don't grow as fast as engineers' trees, therefore there are fewer opportunities to add a layer and move into it as a manager.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#137

Post by neilv »

This video format is a way to reach some people, though it's like a sales pitch, and not as "linkable" and clearly prescriptive as it could be.

Ideally, there's a canonical YC bible that everyone knows about and consults, whether or not doing YC. Which says things like "equal equity" for the founders, what's the current best thinking on deals should be for founding engineers, early hires, interns, etc.

Avoid people having to piece together and reconcile conflicting information from various other materials and messaging, from YC and elsewhere.

It could become accepted fair and reasonable practices, if it hits those well. Which could break with some things YC has done in the past, then reconsidered. Maybe it could have such a ring of truth that people accept it despite YC's potential biases/conflicts.

Somewhat like we go to levels.fyi to see what to expect from a FAANG, we could go to the YC bible to see what what to expect from a startup (or to do in a startup that we found).

(I'm thinking of YC for this, since they have the influence, and considerable track record of earning trust.)

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#138

Post by wavemode »

slap_shot wrote: post #80
Xeoncross wrote: post #2

As a higher income earner I've always found it important to spend the money to ask a Lawyer, CPA, second Doctor, Mentor, Coache, Inspector, and other people focused on a certain niche in life what they think for the $100/hr (or whatever) fee they charge. Always been worth it. If you're focused on tech, make sure you've hired the right people to review your NDA's, startup contract, new home purchase, or workout routin…

I'll second the opinion of having your contracts reviewed, but will curb some expectations: most contracts (NDAs, employment agreements, home contracts etc) are fairly standard. There may be some small points to negotiate if they are off-market, but you had better have the leverage to negotiate.

That's a valid thing to keep in mind with big corporations. But if you're joining as employee number 5, and they claim they aren't willing to negotiate on something you dislike in the contract because it's "standard", you should leave the interview.

It's exactly what they're talking about in the linked video - you think you're joining as a valued partner, but you're clearly just a cog in the wheel.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#140

Post by danielvaughn »

Aurornis wrote: post #120
satvikpendem wrote: post #9

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

> But getting "founding engineer" level equity on the order of 0.5% (before dilution!) seems to basically be a scam, where you're working 2x the amount for lower salaries than the market, 0.5% at an early stage with below market compensation, no refreshers with future rounds, negligible comp increase with future rounds, and below-market salary is indeed a scam. A lot of startups are happy to operate this way. On the…

Yeah that's wild. I was a founding engineer once, and got 15% via a sweat equity agreement. No way I'd be considered a co-founder for under 1%.
Post reply on HN