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How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

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Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The L6 TPM bar at amazon is way below the L6 SDE/SDM bar. Its not even close

If you have first hand experience, that's better than my anecdote so I will defer. I was going off of the job descriptions, which basically made it seem like an L6 TPM needed to be both an L6 SDE AND a PM. Very possible i'm wrong though.

I have first hand experience dealing with them from the Professional Services side. Anytime I needed something technical, I would go through back channels to avoid them.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#72

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

Do not work at Amazon or amazon-like companies. They are just not worth it from a mental health, wlb, or career perspective for engineers. Find engineering/product first companies. Big tech ain't it any longer.

I’ve said the best thing that happen to my career and finances was to work at AWS for three years. The best thing that ever happened to my mental health was to get PIP’d from Amazon with a $40K severance, Amazon on my resume and finding a job three weeks later.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think alot of engineers are under the impression that if they work hard enough they will be promoted. But actually, the company gains the most from highly productive mid level engineers. These are the workhorses, they do not want to promote them.

You never get promoted for “working hard”. You get promoted by showing your ability to work at a larger “scope”, showing “impact” and “dealing with ambiguity”. All of the leveling guidelines of tech companies I’ve seen or heard about have the same concepts.

The whole "scope" argument is the carrot on the stick. Many engineers, regardless of performance and scope, will not get promoted. They are more valuable to the company as work horses, even if they have higher level capacity and have shown that.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#74
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

Not all smart people have a desire to be parasites that are paid several times more than they're worth by a dysfunctional system.

But the people in question, in this hypothetical, are working in big tech....

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#75
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

> How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Being smart and how much you make aren't related. There are researchers working at universities in Europe being paid miserable salaries and yet making incredible discoveries (like medical ones) and these are incredibly smart people. Meanwhile there are people with only a few neuro…

That's kind of the European dream. You work at uni, have fun pursuing your reasearch and earn enough money to rent a somewhat nice flat in the city.

What else could anyone want?

Heck, today i saw Sepp Hochreiter sitting in the tram on his way to uni. He could do anything in the world, yet he chooses to live the european academic life.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#76
The intro of that video hit hard and hurt. I have literally been in that position where I built the analytics page, which marketing asked for, and I can see the analytics for the analytics and no one has even checked the page. And so I chime in asking if anyone else has noticed that our big product release is not going anywhere and its like crickets. You realize that from your position that you have no ability to hold others accountable.

I mean, if the release had happened and there had been technical issues you would have gotten called out and raked over the coals. But conversely, when the release was technically flawless but the business side tanked then no one is held responsible.

What frustrates me even more is when the non-technical people are acting like they want your input. They are actively soliciting feedback and even talking about empowerment but all of the critical decisions are being made behind closed doors. It is clear they know that any sane and technically competent senior contributor needs agency so they try their best to provide an illusion since they want to keep the actual control. I can even understand it. Their investors demand a prominent VP of sales or marketing and that VP demands their own agency as a requirement to work at the startup. There is only so much control to give out and the technical guy is the one shut out.

One of their points relating to how you know things are working really hit me. If you have fair equity and you have a seat at the table and things are still not working, then maybe you are the problem. But on the other side, if the founders are not giving you a seat at the table even when you are making it clear that you require it then maybe they don't respect you. I believe that it is a mistake to believe that merely working harder will earn that respect.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#77
post #37

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

The path to getting into these founder / c-suite roles is those founding engineer roles in which you can learn how to scale and operate these ventures. The founding engineer role at 0.5% is not meant to be a role to retire on, but a stepping stone to those bigger roles.

> meant

by whom?

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never get promoted for “working hard”. You get promoted by showing your ability to work at a larger “scope”, showing “impact” and “dealing with ambiguity”. All of the leveling guidelines of tech companies I’ve seen or heard about have the same concepts.

The whole "scope" argument is the carrot on the stick. Many engineers, regardless of performance and scope, will not get promoted. They are more valuable to the company as work horses, even if they have higher level capacity and have shown that.

I don’t disagree with that. The best way to get a “promotion” is to work toward more scope, impact, ambiguity - and then leave.

Or in my case get PIP’d from Amazon with a nice severance and found a much less stressful job within three weeks at a smaller company. My hearts always been at smaller companies and I knew from the minute I virtually walked into AWS I wanted to go back to smaller companies.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37969302

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#79
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only a few people who were in the right place at the right time and struck AI gold got lucky. Many PhDs have been slaving away and metaphorically died in several harsh AI winters. Nothing to be jealous of. There are several examples of people who got lucky with infrastructure or more technical engineering, but it is not because of their perceived role or something superficial.

That is part of the hero narrative that I am also lamenting. If there are 100 possible research directions and only 1 proves successful. The people who travel along the other 99 get no recognition, despite expending the same effort and despite their contribution being just as important.

why is their contribution important?

Is it your supposition that the only reason the person who went down the successful path did so purely because they watched everyone else fail? That seems highly unfair to the successful person.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#80

As a higher income earner I've always found it important to spend the money to ask a Lawyer, CPA, second Doctor, Mentor, Coache, Inspector, and other people focused on a certain niche in life what they think for the $100/hr (or whatever) fee they charge. Always been worth it. If you're focused on tech, make sure you've hired the right people to review your NDA's, startup contract, new home purchase, or workout routin…

I'll second the opinion of having your contracts reviewed, but will curb some expectations: most contracts (NDAs, employment agreements, home contracts etc) are fairly standard. There may be some small points to negotiate if they are off-market, but you had better have the leverage to negotiate.
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