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LARPing and Violent Extremism

leb.fbi.gov

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Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#131

Post by droptablemain »

TheJoeMan wrote: post #68
crazygringo wrote: post #24

I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...?? But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing: > For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Govern…

To add a counterpoint, that specific example is really a poor choice to get the point across. It’s been established ( https://www.insider.com/kidnapping-conspiracy-whitmer-fbi-in... ) that the Whitmer plot was run by the FBI itself, in a way having agents LARPing as terrorists. Also, I would hope the real LARPing community can feel safe enough to share tips on what to do if they run into police while running around t…

Friendly reminder that the three-letter agencies are very well embedded in every single "subversive" organizing community in the U.S., be it "left" or "right-wing."

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#132

Post by HarryHirsch »

tap-snap-or-nap wrote: post #123
HarryHirsch wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blatant lying from law enforcement that the citizenry has to deal with on a daily basis is underappreciated. The US has a legal system that permits a police office to say anything, but a citizen must not lie to a police officer. The Miranda warning is not a good sign - it reminds the citizen that the government can and will use anything a citizen says for its own purposes.

> citizenry has to deal with on a daily basis Sounds like a hyperbolic statement. Most citizens may be more likely to say that they do not have to deal with people who commit crime and lie to them on a daily basis unless you are in a very rough neighbourhood with very little law enforcement. People who are policing do have to deal with this daily, however there is a change that the police could potentially form some…

A colleague (non-white, of course) in a former workplace would not pull off the Interstate in certain areas of the nation because they didn't trust police. No, they were not paranoid, only regularly cautious, they were from South America.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#133

Post by RelativeDelta »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #26
pstuart wrote: post #12

I get the appeal and why it's happening, but FFS, this is a huge threat to the United States (and other countries), and it seems to be growing day by day. It's easy to dismiss ("it's just LARPing with real guns, dude") but we need to address it head on. Because this is deeply intertwined with "politics" it becomes radioactive to discuss in polite society (e.g., HN itself), but we'd be well served to find a way to hav…

Does it seem to be growing and is a huge threat in numeric comparison to other negative outcomes because the quantity is actually rapidly increasing or because the media and government are beating a drum about this issue louder than about other issues, regardless of quantitative changes in risk and absolute risk?

It's both.

VEs are increasing in number and sophistication over time because the social contract of the United States has been cleaved.

On one side you have individualistic capitalists who don't want to be told what to do and don't want to subsidize the existence of others.

On the other you have communal idealists who recognize the scale advantage state actions and programs can have and want to deploy them.

The later are winning and the former do not have a political exit that does not involve secession.

That's the fundamental base. The heightened media attention being paid to instances of the above are in response to the general understanding that those fundamentals are now in place.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#134

Post by catlover76 »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #115
catlover76 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing has been "established" except that a number of those involved got convicted. It's silly to think the FBI can force people to commit crimes they had no desire to commit.

Blackmail, lying, misinformation, manipulation, and gaslighting: the tools of an undercover FBI agent.

Such things have always been a part of law enforcement repertoire.

When the FBI was engaging in such "entrapment" against Muslim Americans after 9/11, you would never hear the right-wing complaining, but now of course that their own are turning out to be the perps and the targets, suddenly they want to act like they are against law enforcement over-reach and malfeasance. Except of course when the victim is Black, and then they switch back to not caring.

At the end of the day, a good person can't be convinced to engage in terrorism or violence of any kind, whether politically or religiously motivated. The notion that people who wanted to kidnap someone--for the stupidest and most ignoble of reasons--are "victims" here is lacks any moral credibility or seriousness.

And what's more, it's whiny, weak, and hypocritical. If you ask those criminals (that's all they are) or their supporters whether they think masculinity is in decline and under attack in America, they'd probably launch into a whole spiel of grievances, yet when it push comes to shove, those guys wanted to be absolved for responsibility for their actions and for the corruption of their own hearts and minds. Not manly at all. No integrity.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#135

Post by GauntletWizard »

A ton of this rings true, but this does not:

> To prepare for a violent attack, terrorists possess and practice real weapons and live ammunition. LARPers would have no need for such destructive instruments when preparing for their event.

Nobody loves guns more than LARPers. I know more people into pyrotechnics that play wizards in larps than pretty much any other category of weirdo, and I know a lot of weirdos. It's a power fantasy, but it's one that they love to live out in a small way, and range-shooting is one of the most common expressions of it.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#136

Post by RelativeDelta »

falcolas wrote: post #102
shmde wrote: post #41

> In the modern era, as extreme beliefs (e.g., anti-government or anti-law enforcement movements) Fbi quietly putting psyops telling anti- government is extreme belief lmao.

It always has been for the FBI. They have long treated any outspoken anti-establishment or anti-authority with suspicion and - especially when combined with a minority race - hostility. See how they treated anybody who believe socialism was good back in the cold war days. How they kept detailed files on people who spoke against the powers held by the authorities.

It is because they are tasked with the preservation of the United States as a political entity.

Anything or group that threatens the power of the state becomes their target - those targets evolve with time.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#137

Post by dmurray »

georgeecollins wrote: post #53
Jensson wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just courts, these are for police officers in general, they say it near the top "which may be helpful to both law enforcement and prosecutors if suspects of targeted violence claim they were playacting". These standards will likely make officers go after more genuine LARPers than before. These tips are very problematic if police officers start to follow them, for example: > Role players will not discuss law…

I agree with the top post that the title confused me. But reading the article I came away with a very different take than you. This person is trying to define the difference between LARPing and being terrorist. That may be obvious to someone who knows LARPers, but not everyone does. I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battl…

The article acknowledges the possibility of people LARPing in a more contemporary context.

I find this plausible, too: I can imagine groups of people getting together recreationally and fantasizing about how they're going to overthrow the fascist mayor, or kill all the Jews, or whatever else. With their real guns and tactical gear, because those look cool. With a badass logo, maybe with some skulls in it. But with no intention of ever actually acting out those fantasies.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#138

Post by tuckerpo »

zen928 wrote: post #125
tuckerpo wrote: post #22

Also see: in Minecraft.

a phrase used to evade being suspended from advertiser-friendly media platforms by "changing" the intent of your statement from a potential threat to an expression of emotion (express anger at them in a game) also as equally useless of a defense as 'just LARPing' if any of your other behavior shows different intentions and inconsistency with the group that would use these phrases, i.e. you don't play videogames it's…

It's also always felt off that people's right to freedom of expression (modulo threatening violence, of course) needs little-kid-esque suffixes slapped onto them to appease feds online.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#139

Post by seabird »

A lot of people here, and the original article, don't seem to realize what people that use "LARPing" mean when they say it. It's a disparaging term used to describe when somebody isn't going to actually pursue or follow through on something. Somebody with a bunch of tactical gear that's constantly running shooting drills and talking about joining a war in the Middle East or Eastern Europe, but never actually does, is "LARPing". Somebody that acts like they're getting lots of money and women when they're not, is "LARPing". There's no connection with actual LARPing other than it being the butt of the joke, and anybody saying it about themselves is basically just saying they're a bullshitter trying to pass themselves off as doing something or preparing to do something they never will, which isn't a criminal defense.
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