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Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

independent.co.uk

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Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#131

Post by LorenPechtel »

dogma1138 wrote: post #125
bhtru wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be worse a catastrophic collapse deep down in the sea or a sudden depressurization high above in the sky around the Armstrong limit?

Implosion at 400 atm probably takes a fraction of a second, with catastrophic decompression of 1 atm you’ll be conscious probably for about a minute.

Above the Armstrong limit you're looking at 9-15 seconds of useful consciousness. (The time you are conscious enough to take actions to save yourself.)

When a deep sub implodes you're going to be hit by water moving at the speed of sound in said water (1,500m/s, considerably faster than in air.) That's far above the speed of nerve impulses, there's no way a pain signal could reach the brain before there isn't a brain left to get the signal.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#132

Post by iancmceachern »

yabones wrote: post #3

What can we learn from this? Don't go in pressure vessels; don't go in confined spaces.

A commercial airplane is a pressure vessel. So is the hot water heater in your house, the espresso machine on your countertop, on and on.

I'm going to keep flying, but just not get on any experimental, uncertified craft of any kind, airplanes, submarines, etc.

Your comment is akin to saying well, that sub had bolts on it so I'm not going to trust bolts from now on. Really, it's just that the bolt was used incorrectly by a person with less than virtuous intentions.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#133

Post by LorenPechtel »

krona wrote: post #48
ranting-moth wrote: post #30

How long can you survive in a 4000 psi water pressure, going suddenly from atmospheric pressure?

The air in your lungs presumably becomes extremely hot. I'm not sure how hot. Perhaps you explode instantly before the implosion scatters you a considerable distance.

I don't think there will be much heating in the lungs--yes, the air is being compressed and heated to extreme temperatures in the process but pressure can only drive a fluid (liquid or gas) to the speed of sound in said fluid. The wall of water is coming much faster than that, it's going to squash you before much of that hot air gets into the lungs.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#134

Post by likeclockwork »

happytoexplain wrote: post #32
antisthenes wrote: post #11

No idea why every single journalist kept forcing the "air remaining" theme. It was far more likely that the sub suffered a catastrophic implosion at the time contact was lost. Glad to see it confirmed, and finally people stop posting the nonsense about air. Shame about the passengers though.

I hate how everything journalists do has to be framed so negatively. "Forcing"? "Keeping the audience engaged" (from the replies)? They were just reporting how much air is left, in the case that they were alive - not insisting that they definitely are alive. It's an obvious thing to want to know, and an obvious thing to report. I'm sure some outlets ham it up, yeah of course. But anybody would report that information…

Everything is being "forced" nowadays. It's the content-less word du jour for "things I don't like".

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#135

Post by Terr_ »

Our_Benefactors wrote: post #123
anthk wrote: post #97

You save up on money ignoring safety, next you fire the guy who could had saved your life, and finally you suffer disasters ending your life. https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehamilton/2023/06/21/oc... Money addicts, take notes. This is what happens when you put money cartels before real life physics.

This is what I try to impress on anyone who thinks “saving money” on tires is a frugal way of living.

> “saving money” on tires

I suspect (anecdotally, n=1) that part of the problem comes from what TV/movie tropes have taught people a tire-failure looks like: Typically it's a slow-leak or very controllable effect. Actors have plenty of time to emote over it, the vehicle can be pulled-over to the side of the road without lots of filming-difficulties, and no need to bring in stunt-doubles. (Then that sets the stage for the haunted house or the rural diner-encounter or whatever.)

In contrast, dangerous or chaotic tire-failure doesn't get shown as much unless it's an action movie and somebody's using bullets or bombs or robot swords or whatever, things someone with bad tires doesn't expect to happen to them.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#136

Post by EA-3167 »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #104
EA-3167 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can we learn? Just because the CEO is on the firing line with you, doesn't make him right, just overly confident. DO hire "50 year old" people with experience, not just kids from university. Don't build your pressure vessel out of materials which are hard to monitor for wear and fatigue. Listen to your experienced employees when they tell you that you've built a death-trap. If you have $250,000 to spend on a sho…

> The media will always stretch out the agony of these stories for as long as it generates clicks Off topic random thought: the increase in mass shootings and their normalization in the US media means those stories don't get as many clicks as they used to.

I suppose any given stimulus becomes routine after enough exposure, so yes I guess to reach the same audience a more novel sort of shock is required.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#137

Post by likeclockwork »

logicalmonster wrote: post #72
just_steve_h wrote: post #25

[flagged]

> The late CEO of OceanGate told David Pogue last fall, “at some point, safety is just pure waste.” In and of itself, what is actually incorrect about that statement? I think a lot of normal people are going to smugly harp on that statement, but in and of itself it seems perfectly reasonable to believe that there's a diminishing return to safety measures for anything at some point. The issue with this sub thing seems…

> > The late CEO of OceanGate told David Pogue last fall, “at some point, safety is just pure waste.” > In and of itself, what is actually incorrect about that statement?

I mean, if we're going to take it out of context, sure... At SOME point it's a waste. That sounds correct to me.

In context: The fact that the person making the statement was crushed into a marble at the bottom of the ocean, along with his passengers, suggests that the point at which safety becomes waste was much later than he thought it was.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#138

Post by dogma1138 »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #131
dogma1138 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implosion at 400 atm probably takes a fraction of a second, with catastrophic decompression of 1 atm you’ll be conscious probably for about a minute.

Above the Armstrong limit you're looking at 9-15 seconds of useful consciousness. (The time you are conscious enough to take actions to save yourself.) When a deep sub implodes you're going to be hit by water moving at the speed of sound in said water (1,500m/s, considerably faster than in air.) That's far above the speed of nerve impulses, there's no way a pain signal could reach the brain before there isn't a brain…

I’ll still take about 1/1000th of a second or so over upto 10 seconds of contemplating my faith.

Especially in the case where I’ve drugged one of my children to come with me.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#139

Post by rsynnott »

just_steve_h wrote: post #25

[flagged]

There’s a Stewart Lee bit about old people equating health and safety with political correctness. Now on one level, it’s absurd; it’s a comedy bit. But there’s a point there; particularly for those on the extreme right, the very idea of being careful has become somewhat politicised. Some (and it is only some; there’s no _inherent_ requirement to act like this) right-libertarians disregard basic safety principles precisely because they consider them to be a creation of The Other Side.

(There's a bit of irony here; Conservatives aren't the conservatives, anymore...)

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#140

Post by rsynnott »

peepeepoopoo11 wrote: post #62
hatsunearu wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this "scoffing at safety and regulation" shit being seen as "hip, cool and rebellious" and somehow a desirable trait is actually completely fucking bonkers to me. Careful analysis and engineering to make things as safe as possible and well characterized is incredibly rewarding and satisfying.

[flagged]

I mean, while it could’ve been a lot worse, all but the CEO here are basically blameless, and even basic regulation could have saved them.
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