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OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

asahilinux.org

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Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#131

Post by zamadatix »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #94

Does anyone know how efforts are going to to get Asahi's kernel changes merged back upstream? Has anything been merged upstream already? Is there a roadmap for getting things upstreamed? Are they pursuing an incremental approach to upstreaming individual components or do they have to prove that everything is flawless on Apple silicon before anything can be merged?

The feature table here https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support also tells you where along the path something is in terms of being stable and making it into the kernel. If it just has a release number like "5.19" then that means it was successfully upstreamed as part of that kernel version. Generally, the Asahi team tries to upstream as they go, but if they are uncertain about the overall architecture of a driver they'll hold off to prevent ossifying certain design decisions too early. An example of this is the GPU driver.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#132

Post by zamadatix »

yewenjie wrote: post #69

Is anybody daily-driving any M2 macbook pro on Asahi Linux? What is your experience like?

It wasn't until this morning installing Asahi on an M2 Pro was supported in expert only install. Prior to that it hasn't been supported at all. There is still some work to go on the Pro/Max/Ultra SoC family.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#133

Post by tverbeure »

jabbany wrote: post #124
mattkevan wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean it’s possible to buy the exact equivalent of a M1 MacBook Air for £99-£249? Send me the link, that sounds amazing.

Not sure where you got the impression of that? There do not exist "equivalent"s to any Apple devices (I don't see them licensing the M1/2 chips to anyone else anytime soon). But depending on what you care about, a "comparable" Apple device could be 10x more expensive. Of course, for other tasks a "comparable" Apple device can also be _cheaper_ than any non-Apple device available! Only looking at aiming for similar "l…

I'd love to see your 10x example.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#134

Post by psanford »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #101
psanford wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> depending on a small team of volunteers to resolve all hardware issues in an ecosystem hostile to OSS, which might break at any point Apple decides to do so You are describing how most OSS software has been developed. I don't see how this is any different than early linux when no hardware manufacturers had any interest in supporting it. A lot of the work that the asahi team is doing is just fixing Arm issues in the…

Point me to the Apple contributed drivers in the kernel please.

Why does Apple need to contribute to this work to make it somehow legitimate or good? I own some nice hardware (an m2-air), I want to run Linux on it. Asahi allows me to do that! Why can we not celebrate that the asahi team is bringing oss to new hardware?

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#135

Post by fallat »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #110
fallat wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don't think that it makes up for depending on a small team of volunteers to resolve all hardware issues in an ecosystem hostile to OSS This. The volunteer pool is too small. And you're supporting a shitty company.

I would like to see the volunteer pool grow, but I suspect a lot of things in the Linux kernel are maintained by a small pool of volunteers--it's not like all volunteers (or paid developers) work across the whole kernel, after all. Also, which are the virtuous hardware companies and what's stopping them from making compelling products? And since I'm already a Mac user, I've already supported this evil company, so wha…

Not sure why you're fixated on the whole Linux kernel - we're talking about a small pool of volunteers supporting complex modules.

There are good laptops out there other than Macs... Lenovo, HP, Dell, etc all have offerings which are supported out of the box by Linux because they aren't using their own hardware or do contribute the necessary code to run FOSS OSs.

I'm not asking you to now dump your Mac. That'd be silly. Continue to use your Mac with Asahi, just don't complain if Apple decides to break anything at any time, and expect it. Know that what you type on now is already planned for obsolescence and most likely has intentional design flaws as shown again and again by people like Louis Rossmann.

When your Mac dies, I am asking you to not buy Apple for your next laptop. That's all that can be reasonably asked.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#136

Post by zamadatix »

hejcloud wrote: post #64

Recently, I've been thinking about using Asahi as the host system running on my M1 MBA and run everything macOS in a vm. Does anyone have experience with that? How stupid would that be?

People have gotten QEMU with KVM running VMs and other people have gotten macOS ARM64 running under QEMU... so I think technically possible, though I haven't actually tried going that far with it. I don't think you'd get virtual GPU acceleration support working in the current state, so performance would be pretty god awful.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#137

Post by sbuk »

tormeh wrote: post #49

Sorry, but what's the point? Why not just buy a Linux laptop and have everything work out of the box? Why are Linux enthusiasts putting so much effort into supporting hardware from companies that - at best - ignore Linux? This question is also valid for other manufacturers, btw, not just Apple. So much time wasted doing free labor for hardware companies that will just break your stuff with the next hardware iteration…

With that attitude, Linux and its ecosystem wouldn’t exist. But to answer your question; because they can and are having fun doing so.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#138

Post by jabbany »

tverbeure wrote: post #133
jabbany wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you got the impression of that? There do not exist "equivalent"s to any Apple devices (I don't see them licensing the M1/2 chips to anyone else anytime soon). But depending on what you care about, a "comparable" Apple device could be 10x more expensive. Of course, for other tasks a "comparable" Apple device can also be _cheaper_ than any non-Apple device available! Only looking at aiming for similar "l…

I'd love to see your 10x example.

There is one above in the server/homelab space. Items like memory and storage are charged huge markups* so if you need a lot of capacity of those you are going to quickly get into the 10x range!

As for longevity, if you consider software support ending as EoL, software/OS support for a huge swath of Intel iMacs (especially those with DGPUs) was dropped by Apple quite a few OS releases ago and you have to run community patches to keep them working. Whereas similar decade old hardware still run Win 10 and Linux out of the box.

*: Don't get me wrong though, the markups are for good reason. x86 platforms don't offer anything close to Apple's ARM chip memory bandwidth (which are closer to DGPU levels). Similarly, for flash/SSDs.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#139

Post by m45t3r »

kaba0 wrote: post #107
thx-2718 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But even this way, apple devices have by far the longest lifetimes, macs, iphones will have 2-3 owners easily - so is it really fair to call them out, or is it just baseless emotional reaction?" Why reply that criticism of Apple must be purely an emotional one? Kind of diminishes your argument here. Immediate search result for repairable phones: https://www.androidcentral.com/best-sustainable-repairable-p... https:/…

So the only option has 1/10th the hardware of an older iphone with shittier camera than that.. for me that’s not a good deal. Framework laptops are insanely expensive for again, worse hardware. Isn’t the point of linux to run on anything? Also, every device needs battery replacements, like this is just the physics/chemistry of batteries and it has an absolutely doable price for any apple device. What breaks easily on…

> Framework laptops are insanely expensive for again, worse hardware.

1199 EUR is not insanely expensive, specially considering that I can put up-to 64GB of RAM in a Framework laptop with a reasonable amount of money, while I would need to pay almost the price of a full Framework laptop to do the same in a Macbook Pro [1]. This is IMO, insanely expensive.

And yes, I can definitely use those amount of memory during mass rebuilds that I sometime like to do in NixOS. I don't even try to do those same workloads in my macOS because they start to become hugely slow once you hit the swap.

[1]: by the way, this get even worse considering that I also need to upgrade from an M2 Pro to M2 Max to have the option to do so. I just did a quote for the cheapest Macbook Pro with 64GB of RAM, and I got a 4000EUR quote for 512GB of storage that is laughable low for something that expensive. At that price, I can get 2 of the most expensive Framework AMD and I would still have sufficient money to get another one of the older Intel ones as a spare.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#140

Post by kaba0 »

m45t3r wrote: post #139
kaba0 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the only option has 1/10th the hardware of an older iphone with shittier camera than that.. for me that’s not a good deal. Framework laptops are insanely expensive for again, worse hardware. Isn’t the point of linux to run on anything? Also, every device needs battery replacements, like this is just the physics/chemistry of batteries and it has an absolutely doable price for any apple device. What breaks easily on…

> Framework laptops are insanely expensive for again, worse hardware. 1199 EUR is not insanely expensive, specially considering that I can put up-to 64GB of RAM in a Framework laptop with a reasonable amount of money, while I would need to pay almost the price of a full Framework laptop to do the same in a Macbook Pro [1]. This is IMO, insanely expensive. And yes, I can definitely use those amount of memory during ma…

Mind you, the two kinds of RAM are not directly comparable.
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