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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#131

It’s probably only a matter of time. The internet became the only place where age verification wasn’t really a thing. I’m honestly more surprised this didn’t happen 20 years ago.

I believe it is not the responsibility of the government to police what your child is doing.

Some of them have taken on the responsibility of prosecuting vendors for selling certain material to minors. It's not what the child is doing; it's what the vendor is doing.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#132
post #43
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile phones cannot be reliably geo-located by IP as that depends on the datacenter serving them, which can easily be out of state. Usually the only half reliable part is the country which doesn't work in Europe when it comes to roaming (it uses the host country regardless the location).

The law is more about intent than technical compliance. Both are important, but the most important thing is demonstrating good faith efforts to comply. It's a very different world from technology, where technical compliance is more or less the same thing as policy compliance.

What is "technology policy compliance"?

Technology is technical. Policy is political.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#133
Good time to remind everyone that this is what happens when states try to push strict age verification with harsh penalties. The same thing will happen if social media websites are required to do age verification (Reddit and HN are social media under these definitions)

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First admendment?

I’m not aware of any cases holding that distribution of pornography to minors is protected speech, but I’d be happy to be educated if you have one.

There are several precedents that say restrictions based on content must be evaluated using strict scrutiny, which means the restrictions must be as narrow as possible to achieve the government's interests.

See for instance Ashcroft v. ACLU: https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/377/ashcroft-v-...

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#136
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ways are there to verify age online other than photo IDs? Real question, I am not familiar with this area. When I google, I find several third-party "age verification as a service" services. Their marketing isn't always clear about what they actually do, but I think they all look like they get photo ID (not sure if they do anything to try to confirm the person sending the ID is that person). Their pricing is als…

One example: in Japan cell phone operators provide a mechanism by which you can OAuth into their system, and then they will tell you whether the user is over 18 or not. This lets Line age-restrict "become friends with random people online" functionality.

That's interesting, and I have some questions about it. But doesn't currently seem to be available for complying with the Utah law. I was interested in ways that would be practical for pornhub to use, operating not just in Japan, and especially in the USA. The GP's comment made me wonder if they had some in mind, that could be used to comply with the Utah law.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about this. Do sites like Pornhub use DRM in their players? Asking because AFAIK browsers will pass a network ID that does not change when DRM is used. In Firefox it is in "about:networking#networkid" and they don't make it easy to change that. I believe Chrome has something similar. I think it also uses serial numbers? Could be I am mixing up identifiers used in DRM vs. browser specific integrations.

I'm not sure that's relevant. I assume you're suggesting that a user who had accessed the site from Utah could be perpetually flagged as someone who should be blocked. However, that would mean visitors to Utah or anyone no longer residing there could be permanently blacklisted unnecessarily.

I'm not actually sure what I am suggesting to be honest. I just had these little voices in the back of my head saying to finish researching the various identifiers used by DRM. And I think you are right, if such things were used then people might have to prove they moved and it would be a PITA for everyone involved.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#138
For those who think this is just a Utah peculiarity, it's not.

There have been attempts in Europe:

- https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-porn-ban-digital-economy-... - https://www.wired.co.uk/article/germany-porn-laws-age-checks

And its quite related to other pushes for age verification for social media services, as Utah and states like California have proposed:

- https://www.axios.com/2022/09/16/california-law-websites-chi...

Governments regardless of political affiliation and motivation seem intent on age verification, and it's easy to see where this could lead to, for better or worse, a less anonymous and more bureaucratically gated internet going forward. Whether that's good or not is the discussion we should be having.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly it doesn't work? Not even China has been able to make their Great Firewall resilient to stuff like VPNs.

A block doesn't need to be completely effective as to prevent violations - all it needs is to provide enough data to authorities so they can make sure you don't do it too often.

Yeah. I lock my front door at night, despite it being perfect.

This is such a blindspot for ‘24/7 engineer mindset’ people. And, in a professional context, things like this serve as a great litmus test for if someone is capable and geared to look at things at a bigger-picture level instead of just ‘computer problems’.

…not to equate looking at porn with getting burglarised. This is obviously BS.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#140
post #32

This all seems a little disingenuous. First, from their summary, it doesn’t sound like the law actually requires checking a photo ID. They’re treating it like some maximalist regulation that it isn’t—it requires them to do more than nothing though. And also > PornHub said that a better solution is to identify users by their device. Pornhub effectively does absolutely nothing to verify users’ ages right now. Maybe it…

>Maybe it wouldn’t be such a bad thing if they did something I don't get that. Why would it be good? Why should it ever be a webpage's responsibility?

Because it's literally illegal for children to view porn. The fact they've gotten away with doing nothing this long is ridiculous. Ultimately parents will need to be more involved but the idea that it's just ok to have a free for all on this stuff is ridiculous.

There's lots of things children aren't legally allowed to access but I can't think of any of them that do absolutely nothing to meet those legal requirements. Imagine if a liquor store just decided it was fine to let kids come in and purchase liquor and you said "Why is it the liquor store's responsibility to not sell booze to kids?"

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