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Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

andrewlock.net

131–140 of 357 posts

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#131
I'm traditionally about as far from a "microsoft ecosystem" dude as it gets. The first MS anything I've touched in my career has been the last year or so in csharp, and I love it. Great performance, excellent language, sane architectures. ASP.net is awesome for APIs.

I use Rider from Jetbrains, develop on a mac, deploy to Linux on AWS, it would blow the mind of 2003 me to know this was the case.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that was my point, either you're writing a lot of code yourself ("assembly"), or you use EF ("Python"). We're not used to something like EF, perhaps it would work for us. But debugging generated queries due to performance issues is something we'd like to avoid. For now the decision was made to not use EF.

EF handles migration and you can re-use the DbConnection and execute plain SQL. If you don't want to debug difficult queries, then extend it to use Dapper and use the best of both worlds.

You don’t have to use migrations, it’s an optional feature. It works equally well to just generate entities from an existing database, that is migrated/set-up in any other way (as long as the schema is not crazily complex).

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#133

My big problem with .NET is that a lot of line-of-business apps were written using ASP.NET Web Forms, but there is no upgrade path other than “rewrite most of it”. It feels like the pain everyone went through upgrading from Python 2 to Python 3. It also doesn’t help that .NET Framework has its support cycle tied to the OS, and hence is 10+ years. This means that businesses can be lazy and just leave these old apps to…

Technologies don’t live forever. At some point you need to upgrade, and at some points there will be some major breaking changes.

.NET 4.8 is still fully supported, and there is no end-of-life communicated yet. It is a part of windows server 2022, which will be supported until 2031, that’s probably the earliest possible end-of-life date for .NET 4.8.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The writing was on the wall a long, long time ago! These companies had 15 years to do it. And it was fairly easy to get webforms + MVC running side-by-side on the same site so you could gradually migrate. Too late for that now though, you can't run webforms + MVC Core side-by-side. You could put a load balancer in front of the old app and start moving end points to a new code base. It's akin to moaning that MS haven'…

> The writing was on the wall a long, long time ago! [...] These companies had 15 years to do it. I pointed this out in 2013 only to be literally shouted down by my manager. I did so again in 2017 under a different manager on the same team with the suggestion that we investigate using SPAs and RESTful frameworks only to be told that Razor Pages was the way forward which, while an improvement, didn't do any wonders fo…

Classic management f**-up. Some products/companies just die, because of bad management that doesn’t react to change. Get a new job ;)

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. .NET "Core" ... I tell myself "C is for Cross platform." This is usually what people seem like they mean now when they talk about ".NET". 2. .NET "Framework" ... I tell myself "F is for Former." This is the older, Windows specific version. 3. .NET "Standard" ... I tell myself "S is for Specification." This is just the spec which defines what Core and Framework must implement.

I think .NET "Standard" is deprecated. Per this article. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/the-future-of-net-stan... Though reading through it, I am still confused.

.NET Standard specified a common API that was implemented by the .NET Core and .NET Framework runtimes, allowing library authors to easily target both platforms.

.NET Standard solved a problem at the time but as elucidated in the article, it turned out not to be the right solution in the long term. .NET Framework is essentially in maintenance mode and won't be receiving new language features, so new .NET Standard versions don't make much sense given the overhead they introduce. Newer versions of .NET will still be able to build and run libraries targeting .NET Standard but no new .NET Standard versions will be released.

Greenfield projects now typically target what was previously called .NET Core. With the removal of .NET Standard, .NET Core was renamed to .NET to reflect the fact that it's the whole ecosystem as far as any future development is concerned.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#136
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The writing was on the wall a long, long time ago! [...] These companies had 15 years to do it. I pointed this out in 2013 only to be literally shouted down by my manager. I did so again in 2017 under a different manager on the same team with the suggestion that we investigate using SPAs and RESTful frameworks only to be told that Razor Pages was the way forward which, while an improvement, didn't do any wonders fo…

Classic management f**-up. Some products/companies just die, because of bad management that doesn’t react to change. Get a new job ;)

> Get a new job ;)

Done :-).

> Some products/companies just die, because of bad management that doesn’t react to change

Some don't have to because they get paid no matter what.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#137
post #72

Odd question maybe, my company uses C# and I've been picking up more backend responsibilities. However, I'm a Linux and Neovim user. I do have Windows and Visual Studio available but I just find it awkward. Is anyone here having success with Linux and Neovim for C#? Even trying to learn more about the language is awkward as so many resources go straight into VS.

I’ve been using Rider in Ubuntu for a year or so, and not really missed VS. Only once when looking into the identity UI templates which required some scaffolding stuff in VS.

I strongly recommend Rider, even for those using Windows. It's a great piece of software.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#138
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is like finding enlightenment after having to figure out which third party package is best for every little thing in Node. Visual Studio is a pretty powerful IDE as well.

It better be at a 30GB install size.

Install size depends on the features you pick when you install. Web / service / library development is small, desktop / mobile / C++ gets bigger as the toolchains + sdks + emulators are big. If your VS install is 30 GB and that's a problem, run the installer, click modify, and uncheck stuff you're not using. A lot of devs check off everything "just in case" but since you can add other features when you need them, it's better to start with what you know you'll use.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#139

As a fan of O'Caml, I have to ask: what's the status of F# on .NET? ...and is it used much compared to C#, or is its use at least growing, or is it stagnating/dying?

F# works, it gets updates and there is good (not perfect) tooling. Everything you can do with C# can be done with F# too. Although most APIs don’t feel very natural in F#. F# has only a small ecosystem, so you may not find the right library for every task, and need to use something object oriented from the C# world instead.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t hold your breath on Maui. I hold no hope for it.

i don’t think I will ever bet on any .NET desktop UI framework again. Even MS is going to Electron or similar for their own stuff. I expect Maui to be put in maintenance mode soon or just to be forgotten.

My problem is many 3rd party companies simply are not upgrading from 4.8 which means I’m stuck on 4.8. It’s too much work for me to reproduce all of these 3rd party controls. Some of these companies are defunct, some don’t see the demand to justify even the small effort, whatever the reason the loss of backward compatibility has been a huge loss to the comercial ecosystem. Microsoft dose not have the power it used to. Practically every large tender I see requires that must be run in the browser. I’m pretty sure everyone is sick of Microsoft.
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