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Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

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Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#131

Post by wheresmycraisin »

addicted wrote: post #117
wheresmycraisin wrote: post #99

Magnus Carlsen has basically been a model champion for close to a decade now. He's not known for controversy and the odd situations where he dealt with less-than-classy opponents, he's taken it on the chin and moved on, usually with nothing more than brief statement. And he has been very positive about other younger GM's. So him coming out and "accusing" Niemann is akin to a nobel prize winning scientist accusing a g…

Carlsen had no problem playing Hans in the Meltwater championship weeks before the Sinquefeld cup. He had no issue playing Hans in the Sinquefeld cup. Until he lost to Hans. It’s also important to note that Magnus has still not actually accused Hans of anything. He’s letting insinuations, innuendo and Twitter imaginations run wild do all the work for him.

He's lost to many players for many reasons, even during his reign as WC.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#132

Post by [deleted] »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #84
tromp wrote: post #23

Applying sound statistical methods to thousands of Niemann games, cheating expert Ken Regan finds no evidence of cheating [1]. > The verdict > Dr. Regan analyzed all of Hans Niemann's games over the last two years, including online games, such as played on Chess.com and their events, and his conclusion is there is no reason whatsoever to suspect him of cheating. The wide range of results in a bell curve, with some go…

How can one even cheat in chess? When I was a kid we used to distract the opponent and move some figures as he didn't watch. Apparently this is not the case but I can hardly imagine another way.

[deleted]

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#133

Post by FartyMcFarter »

wheresmycraisin wrote: post #130
H8crilA wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Just because of reputation? What are you even talking about... Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. We should be shown evidence, or Carlsen should apologize.

Yes, when it's something that's unprovable (if done well enough), reputation can play a role, esp. if it's golden boy v.s. admitted past cheater. And Carlsen didn't technically accuse him and Niemann is not technically on trial, so "innocent until proven guilty" is irrelevant. Magnus's goal seems to be to get Niemann disinvited from tournaments. He's taking such drastic measures for a reason at the expense of his own…

You definitely don't have to trust his judgment. People change, he could be paranoid at the moment for all we know.

Magnus should explain his actions to the organisers and the public, or just not enter tournaments.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#134

Post by jpgvm »

FooHentai wrote: post #29
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why people are going out their way to justify Carlsen attitude. What we have is the world champion throwing a tantrum because he lost against a player there is absolutely no evidence has cheated against him and is now calling for him to be expelled despite having no evidence whatsoever. This is harassment pure and simple. The whole thing is disgraceful and reflects extremely badly on competitive ch…

I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That we have this bizarre attitude of permissiveness and time salvation around cheaters in competition is frankly bizarre. What other argument is there than to refuse to engage. It is not difficult to simply never cheat, in the same way that it is not difficult to simp…

A good counter-example is s1mple from the Counterstrike: Global Offensive scene. He was known to have cheated when he was a teenager but went on a redemption arc that has seen him become not only the statistically best player to ever play the game but also one of its most mature and respected players. All the while under intense scrutiny for cheating because of his history.

I don't think one and out forever is really the way to deal with cheating in teenagers, they are yet to fully understand the consequences of their actions or how to deal with pressure/emotions - especially in online settings when the temptation is higher and the fallout less obvious.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#135

Post by Tenoke »

zimpenfish wrote: post #109
bayesian_horse wrote: post #100

I found the speculation about anal beads hilariously entertaining. Now whenever a colleague stumbles to find an answers I have to suppress the urge to say something to the effect of "Did the anal beads' batteries run out?"

> I found the speculation about anal beads hilariously entertaining. Especially since AFAICT it seems to have come from a clearly joke Reddit post[1] about how they discovered the cheating because Carlsen's own anal beads were vibrating in the match... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/chessmemes/comments/x8217h/the_real...

It comes from a twitch follower saying it as a joke in the chessbrah stream and GM Eric Hansen running with the joke. It's never been a serious theory even if mainstream media and Colbert or Trevor Noah make it seem like it is for views.

This reddit post is just someone else running with the joke later by saying that Magnus also uses them.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#136

Post by NotYourLawyer »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #72
KingMob wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's admitted to cheating in the past. The Bayesian priors for him currently cheating are not the same as for other people.

Sorry but that’s garbage. You either have evidence or you don’t. You can’t just say: once guilty always guilty and be fine with that. I find the general holier-than-thou self-righteous attitude expressed by most armchair commenters extremely off putting.

The fact that he cheated before is evidence. It’s not proof, but it’s absolutely evidence.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#137

Post by not1ofU »

vintermann wrote: post #37
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As more evidence comes out I haven't seen evidence of Neumann's cheating, as is claimed in this comment. Only allegations, which do not look very strong to me.

I have heard a concrete allegation that in the Capablanca Memorial 2022 tournament (which was over the board), Niemann has games where he plays normally up to a point in the midgame, then he plays the top line of a specific engine (Stockfish 11) for an implausible number of moves in sequence. There are a lot of lower-quality accusations, but this is the interesting one IMO. It should be easy enough to independently c…

ChessBruh mentioned that this youtube channel has analysis of Hans' Games, focusing on centipawn loses after standard openers are filtered out:

https://www.youtube.com/c/ChessfanMWP/videos

The last 5 or so vids on that channel are in English, but youtube does a decent-ish translation of his other videos too.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#138

Post by jokabrink »

Two peculiar side notes here:

1) The first three and only moves of this game at Julius Bär Generation Cup with Niemann as white is the same opening as the first controversial game (2022-09-05) at the Sinquefield Cup but with flipped sides (Magnus white).

2) Chess.com, the organization that decided to ban Niemann [1] sometime between these two games based on his online play behaviour on that platform, just bought Play Magnus (a competitor to chess.com that Magnus formed) less than a month ago and is in the state of merging. [2]

- [1] https://twitter.com/chesscom/status/1568010971616100352

- [2] https://www.chess.com/news/view/chesscom-playmagnus

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#139

Post by wheresmycraisin »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #133
wheresmycraisin wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, when it's something that's unprovable (if done well enough), reputation can play a role, esp. if it's golden boy v.s. admitted past cheater. And Carlsen didn't technically accuse him and Niemann is not technically on trial, so "innocent until proven guilty" is irrelevant. Magnus's goal seems to be to get Niemann disinvited from tournaments. He's taking such drastic measures for a reason at the expense of his own…

You definitely don't have to trust his judgment. People change, he could be paranoid at the moment for all we know. Magnus should explain his actions to the organisers and the public, or just not enter tournaments.

If it becomes known that Magnus was having mental health issues (wouldn't be the first chess genius to have such things), then sure, my opinion may change. He most certainly did talk to the organizers. Why he has not made a public statement is beyond me, but I wouldn't be surprised if commercial interests and law suits are involved.
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