131–140 of 140 posts
“So, when can you let us know?” “Well,” you tell them, “I have another interview coming up in January. So I’ll let you know right after that.” “Oh,” they say. “That might be a problem. We really have to know by December 31st. Can you let us know by December 31st?” What you could do is answer the "When can you let us know?" question with another question "Well, when do you need to know?". Dec 31st might sound like the…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Uh yeah, ethics. You can treat life like a big exercise in game theory. But you're going to have this thing called a "reputation". Maybe you can get away with it on your campus interviews, but if you consistently lie to get the best of a situation, it will catch up to you. (Lying in this case being accepting an offer without the intention of taking it. As opposed to saying you need time to consider other offers.) Joe…
I doubt this. By what mechanism will recruiters at company A use to communicate your failure to accept their offer to company B? Accepting every offer and then reneging on all but one marks you as a second-rate employee. It's the behavior of the desperate. No it's not. I can see why you might think it's shady, but it's not desperate. It's the behavior of someone afraid to push back, which probably happens more to col…
Managers have connections too.
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I don't know about ethics, wouldn't everyone understand if a person's situation changes in 6 months? That's a lot of time. Say I accept an offer in December, then get a better one in May. Wouldn't the December offer be understanding of the fact that hey, I'm gonna have to change my mind here.
Uh yeah, ethics. You can treat life like a big exercise in game theory. But you're going to have this thing called a "reputation". Maybe you can get away with it on your campus interviews, but if you consistently lie to get the best of a situation, it will catch up to you. (Lying in this case being accepting an offer without the intention of taking it. As opposed to saying you need time to consider other offers.) Joe…
All I'm saying is that life changes in 6 months. It can actually change a lot. Especially when you're young.
Think of it like this:
In December you verbally accept an offer to intern at, say, Adobe. It's a pretty cool offer and you have all intention on taking it.
Then in May you get a chance to intern at Google.
Would your mind process really be: "You know what, screw Google, I already promised to Adobe that I'd work for them over the summer"?
I never consider a job offer finalized until I am actually doing work for the company. When I start actually being given tasks and completing them, that's when I start declining other offers. Until then my time is fair game. Those who move quicker will get it.
“So, when can you let us know?” “Well,” you tell them, “I have another interview coming up in January. So I’ll let you know right after that.” “Oh,” they say. “That might be a problem. We really have to know by December 31st. Can you let us know by December 31st?” What you could do is answer the "When can you let us know?" question with another question "Well, when do you need to know?". Dec 31st might sound like the…
Definitely... And never reveal other information that isnot their concern.
If you don't want to provide that level of disclosure, you should inform the recruiter that you won't have a decision by x date, only by y date, and they'll have to live with that. They may continue to pursue or they may forgo your candidacy, but either way you were honest. There are plenty of gigs out there that you can get legitimately, even if a would-be ill-gotten gig is presented first. You shouldn't give in.
I don't think it's acceptable to accept an offer with the intent to leave in short order without providing disclosure of that possibility. Justifications like "Microsoft will survive" don't make your actions any more correct or honorable and should not be used. Man up and be honest with your potential employers.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Uh yeah, ethics. You can treat life like a big exercise in game theory. But you're going to have this thing called a "reputation". Maybe you can get away with it on your campus interviews, but if you consistently lie to get the best of a situation, it will catch up to you. (Lying in this case being accepting an offer without the intention of taking it. As opposed to saying you need time to consider other offers.) Joe…
Who said anything about lying? All I'm saying is that life changes in 6 months. It can actually change a lot . Especially when you're young. Think of it like this: In December you verbally accept an offer to intern at, say, Adobe. It's a pretty cool offer and you have all intention on taking it. Then in May you get a chance to intern at Google. Would your mind process really be: "You know what, screw Google, I alread…
That's lying. It's also a pretty cavalier attitude toward it which I think bothered several people.
If I accepted an offer from Adobe then I wouldn't continue applying for jobs. Accepting an offer usually involves signing something.
If you are really lukewarm about Adobe in December, I would just say: "I have multiple offers and am waiting for results toward the end of the year." They might move on or retract the offer, but you can always call them back in May and try to get the job again. It's not that big a deal. Joel's advice is good: try to schedule your interviews near each other.
Personally I don't apply for jobs which I'm not excited about... so I have only applied for 1 or 2 at a time ever. I definitely wouldn't be excited about a job with Adobe :)
When an offer is made for full-time, permanent employment a response is normally expected pretty quickly - within a few days. The interview process may take weeks or months but once the offer is made, it's expected that all parties are fairly serious and you are ready to turn in your 2-weeks notice if you are already employed, or possibly start right away if not.
The rules may be different for these two situations. In the latter, I definitely would not suggest accepting an offer and then backing out as a strategy. If you do, at least be aware that you may be burning bridges along the way.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who said anything about lying? All I'm saying is that life changes in 6 months. It can actually change a lot . Especially when you're young. Think of it like this: In December you verbally accept an offer to intern at, say, Adobe. It's a pretty cool offer and you have all intention on taking it. Then in May you get a chance to intern at Google. Would your mind process really be: "You know what, screw Google, I alread…
Read what was suggested 2 posts up: "Also, why aren't people accepting every offer they get, then at the start of summer[1] send an email about changing their minds to everyone who isn't the best offer?" That's lying. It's also a pretty cavalier attitude toward it which I think bothered several people. If I accepted an offer from Adobe then I wouldn't continue applying for jobs. Accepting an offer usually involves si…
Obviously when you sign something that means certain obligations, but in my opinion signing something also means a paycheck at most a month from the time of signing and actual tasks to work on at most a week from the time of signing.
Without any of that there's no point in signing anything and binding yourself down with noncompetes if you have several months of opportunity to work on other projects without worrying about legal issues.
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If it's wrong, it's wrong, whether you do it to your best friend or your worst enemy. A big company can absorb the cost of a schedule slip or missing an opportunity to hire a great alternative candidate. That doesn't make it any more right to break your word.
I like Cicero's answer to the question of when it is OK to break your word. Updating for the modern world... Suppose someone gives you a gun and you promise to give it back when requested. Then the individual goes insane and then comes back to request the gun back. In that case (Cicero uses a sword but same story) Cicero says you have a moral obligation to break your word. I can't imagine you'd disagree with that and…
In an effort to reconcile these positions, I would argue that my agreement with the original gun-owner contained the unstated understanding that it would only be returned if he was mentally fit.
These sort of 'clauses' if you will are inherent in any agreement we make. It is understood that "I'll return the book to you on Tuesday." also contains the qualifier "assuming, of course, that: a meteor doesn't impact the earth, my car doesn't break down, the US doesn't enter nuclear war....etc."
Still, I don't feel that agreeing to work for a company does not include the understanding that I'll work for them "as long as I don't get a better offer elsewhere."
However, you may argue that it does, and I guess I'd have to give it to you in that case. It's just that...my own agreement wouldn't. By making this proposition I'm basically allowing anyone to break any contact by saying "well, my agreement contained this unstated understanding which lets me do ____". I think that most times the agreement is fully understood between both parties though. There are definitely examples where the line gets fuzzy though, which is why it's so important to communicate so that everyone is on the same page.
An exploding offer is just as low and dirty as "Call within the next 20 minutes and you'll get a bonus set of steak knives, absolutely free!". It's an attempt to take advantage of a basic cognitive bias, loss aversion, in order to coerce you into acting irrationally.
If a company really does have a legitimate business reason to take on people in a hurry, they will negotiate. If I need a rush job from my printers, I pay extra. If I need a package sending next day, I pay extra. If I truly, desperately needed an extra employee to work on an urgent project, why on earth wouldn't I pay more to get the best possible candidate?
You have no ethical obligations to someone who is trying to deceive and exploit you.