Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer • Hacker News Board

Re: Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer

#21

Post by raganwald » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 5:39 PM UTC

simulate wrote: post #7

I'm surprised this is coming from Spolsky. Spolsky's companies must be getting big. Small companies can often only hire one person at a time and therefore need short acceptance windows. Small companies (< 50 people) often have only one specific position open. It is unethical to make more than one offer if you hiring for a single position. Therefore small companies often need short acceptance windows so they can make…

He’s discussing the kind of company that recruits using mass-interviews of college students. Some are small companies, but most are BigCos with cubicle farms to fill.

Re: Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer

#22

Post by brown9-2 » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 5:40 PM UTC

This article is a word-for-word repost of an article Joel posted on his site in November 2008: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/11/26.html

How does something like this work - does Betabeat ask Joel for permission to repost his content under their name/banner/ads? Do they work out a cut of ad revenue? Or do they just copy-and-paste the content without permission, figuring most writers won't complain?

Re: Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer

#23

Post by rmc » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 5:41 PM UTC

“So, when can you let us know?”
“Well,” you tell them, “I have another interview coming up in January. So I’ll let you know right after that.”

“Oh,” they say. “That might be a problem. We really have to know by December 31st. Can you let us know by December 31st?”

What you could do is answer the "When can you let us know?" question with another question "Well, when do you need to know?". Dec 31st might sound like they have some sensible end of year thing, but I predict scummy companies/recruiters will pick a date just before you said you had another interview. Try to see what they say first.

Re: Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer

#24

Post by rmc » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 5:43 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #6

Is it odd that the most surprising thing about this article, for me, was that people start looking for summer jobs in November? Also, why aren't people accepting every offer they get, then at the start of summer[1] send an email about changing their minds to everyone who isn't the best offer? Or even play offers against each other? [1] or rather a reasonable amount of time sooner

You might have to sign a contract.

Re: Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer

#25

Post by rmc » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 5:44 PM UTC

simulate wrote: post #7

I'm surprised this is coming from Spolsky. Spolsky's companies must be getting big. Small companies can often only hire one person at a time and therefore need short acceptance windows. Small companies (< 50 people) often have only one specific position open. It is unethical to make more than one offer if you hiring for a single position. Therefore small companies often need short acceptance windows so they can make…

IME Small companies usually have a hard time hiring people, and sometimes it's months between "Hey we should hire someone" and when that person starts. Hence they have already waited a few months from when they started looking to your interview, and as such a few more weeks isn't going to kill them.

Re: Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer

#26

Post by jackowayed » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 5:49 PM UTC

Several people are looking at this from the employer side and claiming that this should be acceptable because it's hard when you have one position to fill and someone has a lock on it for a long time.

While that is valid, especially for smaller companies, many companies definitely use this when that reasoning doesn't hold. I'm about to receive an offer for the summer from [very big company] that employs ~1000 interns in the location where I'd be. I would guess that the team I'll be on has several other intern slots. Despite that, and despite the fact that I wouldn't start my internship for 7 months, from what I hear they will definitely give me a short deadline to decide.

This is purely a matter of them trying to get me to commit while my visit to them is fresh in my mind and before I can apply and consider too broadly.

And while, from an ethical standpoint, you can make the claim that it's "hard" for employers and they "need" this, hiring people is also hard for employers. You can try to shift your burdens on to potential employees, but that's going to hurt you in the competition for talent. Any time that you are less employee-friendly than other companies, even with legitimate reason, you might lose out.

Re: Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer

#27

Post by thedufer » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 5:54 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #22

This article is a word-for-word repost of an article Joel posted on his site in November 2008: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/11/26.html How does something like this work - does Betabeat ask Joel for permission to repost his content under their name/banner/ads? Do they work out a cut of ad revenue? Or do they just copy-and-paste the content without permission, figuring most writers won't complain?

They linked to the original at the top of the article. Doesn't look like an attempt to steal his work.

Re: Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer

#28

Post by impendia » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 5:54 PM UTC

> Trust me on this one: there’s not a single hiring manager in the world who wants to hire you but would get mad just because you’re considering other offers.

Although Joel Spolsky certainly knows more than me, I'll ask anyway: Is that really true? Perhaps it is, but I would guess that this is a pretty big overstatement.

However, I think it can safely be said (and this is maybe not obvious to many prospective interns) that if the hiring manager does get mad, then that's a big red flag, and if you got rejected for this reason then you dodged a bullet.

Re: Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer

#29

Post by Agathos » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 5:59 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #17

thurn wrote: post #2

There ought to be a database of companies that give offers with very short expirations. Not necessarily condemning the practice, but it would be good to know. Yelp, for example, routinely gives offers with a 5-day acceptance window.

There ought to be a database of tech companies with shady employment practices, period.

I think that's glassdoor.com.

Re: Joel Spolsky On Tech Hiring: Beware the Exploding Offer

#30

Post by andrewflnr » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 5:59 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #22

This article is a word-for-word repost of an article Joel posted on his site in November 2008: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/11/26.html How does something like this work - does Betabeat ask Joel for permission to repost his content under their name/banner/ads? Do they work out a cut of ad revenue? Or do they just copy-and-paste the content without permission, figuring most writers won't complain?

Thank you. Joel's site doesn't crash my iPad.