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Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

theguardian.com

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Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#131

Post by [deleted] »

gautamdivgi wrote: post #130
lostlogin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolute free speech is desired Is it? Curtailing the ‘freedom’ to be as offensive as one wants, consequences be dammed, is not something everyone agrees with. Even the US places limits on free speech for these reasons.

The US doesn’t limit speech. Private platforms are self censoring. It has even upheld the right of citizens to burn the flag [0](reprehensible as it might be in the view of the majority). 0. https://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-a...

[deleted]

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#132

Post by hef19898 »

mayankkaizen wrote: post #118
koshergweilo wrote: post #3

I admit I'm not super familiar with India's freedom of speech, is this a backslide or has it always been like this?

Let me tell you my anecdotal experience. Modi came in power in 2014 and till than I was BJP (Modi's party) supporter. Then I began to see how dangerous Modi is to society as a whole. In short, he is modern, complex sophisticated version of Nazi ideology. He carefully raised an army of hindu rightwing members who are bigots, intolerant and full of hate. He doesn't belive in democracy, freedom of speech, human rights,…

That's right from the Nazi playbook, and extremely scary...

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#133

Post by vharuck »

gautamdivgi wrote: post #130
lostlogin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolute free speech is desired Is it? Curtailing the ‘freedom’ to be as offensive as one wants, consequences be dammed, is not something everyone agrees with. Even the US places limits on free speech for these reasons.

The US doesn’t limit speech. Private platforms are self censoring. It has even upheld the right of citizens to burn the flag [0](reprehensible as it might be in the view of the majority). 0. https://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-a...

US law permits restrictions on speech, but only in very specific cases for very good reasons. For example, gag orders during court proceedings are temporary limitations on speech meant to ensure a fair trial.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/gag_order

And obviously, any speech that is intrinsically part of another crime would be punishable (e.g. telling somebody you're from the IRS so you could steal their return).

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#134

Post by lolinder »

jrm4 wrote: post #129
lolinder wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're the first person to bring the US culture war into this conversation. Every other time the US has come up, it's either to note the exceptionally strong legal protections we have or to bring up the relatively limited legal restrictions we do have (EDIT: all in the context of this story about India).

Good, this means that the people here are smart. Hence why I said get everyone else :) (i.e. I legit wasn't thinking about people posting here)

It's less to do with people here being smart, it's that the US culture war is off topic. :)

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#135

Post by _-david-_ »

jrm4 wrote: post #123

Quoted post unavailable.

There is governmental censorship and private censorship. People complaining about censorship in the US are complaining about private censorship. I also don't think anybody in the US is saying that the censorship we have here is worse than censorship experience experienced by others. Censorship in India doesn't really impact the average person in the US but the private censorship in the US does.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#136

Post by notahacker »

naruvimama wrote: post #68
einszwei wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that relevant to the topic at hand? Please don't resort to whataboutery and lower the standard of discussion.

It shows the duplicity and double standards When the west starts point fingers at India for - free speech, human rights, co2 emissions or for that matter oil imports from Russia. There is still a colonial mindset at the institutional level where they believe they can just pass arbitrary unfounded judgments and the world has no choice but to accept it. But clearly the data exposes their duplicity.

The Guardian points fingers at the West on the issues of free speech, human rights, CO2 emissions and oil imports from Russia (and pretty much every other oil exporting nation) on a daily basis. The idea that it reserves its criticism for places like India is comically ignorant of the Guardian's editorial stance...

(And the prevailing institutional bias at the highest level of government is the other way: it's "we'd probably make more of a fuss about these incidents and allegations if Modi didn't seem such a pro-business, pro-West kinda guy". The UK government's latest obsession is a trade deal with India, after all)

Your own arbitrary unfounded judgements of other countries are all over this thread. Sorry, your culture isn't the only one that gets to have an opinion on others.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#137

Post by colpabar »

jrm4 wrote: post #129
lolinder wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're the first person to bring the US culture war into this conversation. Every other time the US has come up, it's either to note the exceptionally strong legal protections we have or to bring up the relatively limited legal restrictions we do have (EDIT: all in the context of this story about India).

Good, this means that the people here are smart. Hence why I said get everyone else :) (i.e. I legit wasn't thinking about people posting here)

It also means that you are the one taking an issue outside the US and injecting US politics into it. Don’t do that!

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#138

Post by MrBlueIncognito »

naruvimama wrote: post #80
MrBlueIncognito wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"who destroyed government or private property during a protest, strike or riot, and that if necessary, the property of the accused would be seized and auctioned to recover the money" — Narottam Mishra, Home Minister https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-61042315.amp If you’re a Muslim living in an illegally-built home and you were _accused_ of being involved in riots, they will bulldoze your life. The extremists…

Why should the country suffer the fanatic beliefs of a few rioters, have we not tried to settle that once and for all in 1947 at a huge price.

Rioters and protesters come from oppressed and impoverished communities. Nobody speaks for them. The media speaks for the rich and powerful politicians. It’s weird how the actual victims are portrayed as the wrongdoers here.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#139

Post by lolinder »

_-david-_ wrote: post #135
jrm4 wrote: post #123

Quoted post unavailable.

There is governmental censorship and private censorship. People complaining about censorship in the US are complaining about private censorship. I also don't think anybody in the US is saying that the censorship we have here is worse than censorship experience experienced by others. Censorship in India doesn't really impact the average person in the US but the private censorship in the US does.

> Censorship in India doesn't really impact the average person in the US but the private censorship in the US does.

There are a couple of commenters here who live in India who would disagree with this idea. Here's one:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31127461

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#140

Post by lostlogin »

gautamdivgi wrote: post #130
lostlogin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolute free speech is desired Is it? Curtailing the ‘freedom’ to be as offensive as one wants, consequences be dammed, is not something everyone agrees with. Even the US places limits on free speech for these reasons.

The US doesn’t limit speech. Private platforms are self censoring. It has even upheld the right of citizens to burn the flag [0](reprehensible as it might be in the view of the majority). 0. https://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-a...

I’m not sure that burning a flag is as reprehensible an act to everyone - it seems like something that would get people fired up a century ago.

I was under the impression that incitement to violence or encouraging suicide was not protected, but I am very far from expert.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_ex...

Edit: Freedom of speech does not include the right:

To incite imminent lawless action. Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969).

To make or distribute obscene materials. Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476 (1957). To burn draft cards as an anti-war protest. United States v. O’Brien, 391 U.S. 367 (1968).

To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration. Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988).

Of students to make an obscene speech at a school-sponsored event. Bethel School District #43 v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675 (1986).

Of students to advocate illegal drug use at a school-sponsored event. Morse v. Frederick, __ U.S. __ (2007).

https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-re...

This list is quite amusing with the focus on schools.

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