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Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

theguardian.com

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Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#101

Post by bongoman37 »

naruvimama wrote: post #80
MrBlueIncognito wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"who destroyed government or private property during a protest, strike or riot, and that if necessary, the property of the accused would be seized and auctioned to recover the money" — Narottam Mishra, Home Minister https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-61042315.amp If you’re a Muslim living in an illegally-built home and you were _accused_ of being involved in riots, they will bulldoze your life. The extremists…

Why should the country suffer the fanatic beliefs of a few rioters, have we not tried to settle that once and for all in 1947 at a huge price.

No post body was provided.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#102

Post by JumpCrisscross »

actuator wrote: post #100
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is not even a single bit of tech relevance in this story This story first came to my attention through a fellow LP in a VC fund currently deploying in India. If this is part of a broader pattern, it's relevant to anyone with or considering exposure to India, personally, financially or professionally.

With what we have seen in China, I hardly think it matters whatever happens in India with relation to freedoms as long as the economy booms. Investors will pour money for returns. But I had a question about this. Do VCs looking for data and analysis of a country largely rely on foreign press or read an assortment of local media as well?

> what we have seen in China, I hardly think it matters whatever happens in India with relation to freedoms as long as the economy booms

Arresting lawmakers is de-stabilising. Very different from what's going on in China.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#103

Post by actuator »

leephillips wrote: post #32
zozbot234 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Grauniad is a U.K. newspaper. They're criticizing India for something that happens all the time in their own country. A total double standard.

The article was a rather neutral reporting of facts. The facts should be embarrassing to India, but that’s not the newspaper’s fault. The Guardian often reports on similar issues occurring within the UK. Here are just two examples: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/14/transgender-... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/04/gender-criti... So you are utterly mistaken.

Guardian largely doesn't publish false news as such but is incredibly selective about the events it chooses to write about.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#104

Post by lostlogin »

gautamdivgi wrote: post #97
leephillips wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along with several others of his works, and tons of other books, such as The deVinci Code . For various reasons such as being “poorly researched”. Here is a list of over 50 banned books: https://sflc.in/read-me-not-list-banned-books-india But there are others. This is not a democracy.

Well, Germany censors the swastika - which has been used by eastern religions for millennia. I think democracy and free speech are different things. Absolute free speech is desired - but not all democracies implement it. Either way, I don’t think India has ever had “free speech”. It has always been controlled speech.

> Absolute free speech is desired

Is it?

Curtailing the ‘freedom’ to be as offensive as one wants, consequences be dammed, is not something everyone agrees with.

Even the US places limits on free speech for these reasons.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#105

Post by actuator »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #102
actuator wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With what we have seen in China, I hardly think it matters whatever happens in India with relation to freedoms as long as the economy booms. Investors will pour money for returns. But I had a question about this. Do VCs looking for data and analysis of a country largely rely on foreign press or read an assortment of local media as well?

> what we have seen in China, I hardly think it matters whatever happens in India with relation to freedoms as long as the economy booms Arresting lawmakers is de-stabilising. Very different from what's going on in China.

> Arresting lawmakers is de-stabilising. Very different from what's going on in China.

People speaking opposing viewpoints are silenced in China as well, no?

The only difference is that in case of India, either the courts or the public through agitations can intervene which might lead to instability.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#106

Post by pessimizer »

koshergweilo wrote: post #3

I admit I'm not super familiar with India's freedom of speech, is this a backslide or has it always been like this?

Absolute freedom of speech is a US Bill of Rights thing, and we backslide when it comes to political or sexual speech, e.g. with political Islam in the 21st century; Communism/Socialism/Anarchism in the early 20th century; and constantly when it comes to anything sexual, especially information about birth control, anything gay, anything involving miscegenation, or anything else that embarrasses a judge or gives him an erection.

The difference between the US and other places is that these things are usually reverted after a few decades by appeal to a clearly written first amendment. The most dangerous assault on US freedom of speech has been copyright, which has become an pretense to monitor all communications since sending information about birth control or sending porn through the mail ceased to be a public priority.

Vaguely defined "hate speech" is creeping up on becoming a reason for government censorship through the backdoor of "hate crime." "Hate crimes" are proved by proving a regular old crime was committed, then poring through the history of the person who committed the crime looking for "hate speech." "Hate speech" could certainly eventually expand to be indistinguishable from lèse majesté. A certain type of mind can see criticism of the President as a "hate crime."

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#107

Post by leephillips »

actuator wrote: post #103
leephillips wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article was a rather neutral reporting of facts. The facts should be embarrassing to India, but that’s not the newspaper’s fault. The Guardian often reports on similar issues occurring within the UK. Here are just two examples: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/14/transgender-... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/04/gender-criti... So you are utterly mistaken.

Guardian largely doesn't publish false news as such but is incredibly selective about the events it chooses to write about.

Every newspaper is narrowly selective about what it writes about. Clearly the Guardian has chosen to write about free speech issues within the UK, regularly, putting the lie to what zozbot234 implied.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#108

Post by baybal2 »

leephillips wrote: post #10
koshergweilo wrote: post #3

I admit I'm not super familiar with India's freedom of speech, is this a backslide or has it always been like this?

India never had freedom of speech. Opposition newspapers are often harassed and shut down. They have a law criminalizing offending religious feelings. This is not an exaggerated paraphrase, that’s what the law says. A scientist was convicted under this law a few years ago for demonstrating that a “weeping” statue of the Virgin Mary was not actually weeping blood. The truth was offensive, so the law applied. EDIT: I r…

No post body was provided.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#109

Post by JumpCrisscross »

actuator wrote: post #105
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what we have seen in China, I hardly think it matters whatever happens in India with relation to freedoms as long as the economy booms Arresting lawmakers is de-stabilising. Very different from what's going on in China.

> Arresting lawmakers is de-stabilising. Very different from what's going on in China. People speaking opposing viewpoints are silenced in China as well, no? The only difference is that in case of India, either the courts or the public through agitations can intervene which might lead to instability.

> People speaking opposing viewpoints are silenced in China as well, no?

One, different systems. Two, when Xi took out senior members of his opposition, it absolutely prompted concern abroad. There was no ensuing rioting or breakdown in the rule of law, so calm minds prevailed. This is a rando lawmaker being taken out for tweeting, not a rival power centre; it looks petty and stupid.

Frankly, the whataboutism in response to this article, on this thread, make it sound more like Russia or Turkey than China or the U.K. If the people aren’t in touch with reality, the government will be stupid.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#110

Post by tchalla »

gautamdivgi wrote: post #97
leephillips wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along with several others of his works, and tons of other books, such as The deVinci Code . For various reasons such as being “poorly researched”. Here is a list of over 50 banned books: https://sflc.in/read-me-not-list-banned-books-india But there are others. This is not a democracy.

Well, Germany censors the swastika - which has been used by eastern religions for millennia. I think democracy and free speech are different things. Absolute free speech is desired - but not all democracies implement it. Either way, I don’t think India has ever had “free speech”. It has always been controlled speech.

Germany doesn’t censor the swastika. It censors Nazi propaganda. So, you’re free to draw the swastika let’s say for Diwali. But if you use it for political purposes, it isn’t allowed for obvious reasons.
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