Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference • Hacker News Board

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#131

Post by tharkun__ » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

waihtis wrote: post #81

jl6 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though plan A (rapid victory) appears to have failed, there is still a rational plan B: carve out the eastern and southern portions Putin wants, leave the rest of the country a smouldering ruin which will cost the west $1tn in aid to rebuild.

A rational plan would've been to confine the conflict into Donbas & Krim. I would make the argument that barely any sanctions would've been put in place if Russia had occupied the areas it was already fighting in, since the west barely cared in 2014

I'm not so sure. If you look at the map, if you want to connect the Krim by land you need more than what was held by the Donbas. That nice wide river coming down from Kiew would make a great border though. And you need something to 'give' in negotiations so you have to take more. Plus Kiew is on that river which would not be great. Would you want Ukraine's capital to basically sit right on your border?

Also I bet you Putin wants these high yield parts, controlling not only Europe's oil and gas supply but also lots of their food supply can only be good for Putin. Look at how much Germany was trying not piss him off even while cruise missiles were destroying Ukraine:

http://static.producer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Ukrain...

So a little more on the coast too (Odessa). If he does leave some of Ukraine in the hands of Ukrainians to end the war and go back to selling Europe gas and oil then a land locked Ukraine would make much less of a threat later too.

And while we are at it why not try for the whole thing? There's a good plan B there. And if you're gonna threaten WWIII, do it for as much gain as you can.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#132

Post by sdoering » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #49

sdoering wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You start by "suggesting Russians are playing a rational game..." but literally the next sentence is condescending western rhetoric. We don't know the strategy and the plan. We might, even maybe reasonably, deduce that Russian leadership thought that Ucrain would fall more quickly. And that some form of stable solution would be the result. But most people don't only have one plan to reach a longer term strategic goal…

>condescending western rhetoric. >Ucrain I don't know. Just a smell.

Not sure what you imply.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#133

Post by maratc » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

> the software to simulate realistic GPS satellite radio signals is generally widely available.

This is interesting. Someone knows if I can spoof GPS signals using my Raspberry Pi -- plus maybe some SDR hat or add-on?

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#134

Post by waihtis » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 2:53 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #119

waihtis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality shatters your point really quickly, it's even mentioned in the lecture (suggesting you didn't watch it): Russians have literally had 8 years of democracy in the past 600+ years, otherwise it's always been an autocracy.

> Russians have literally had 8 years of democracy in the past 600+ years, otherwise it's always been an autocracy. To pin this on the Russian people is ludicrous. I think Russia has been consistently dealt a bad hand when it comes to leadership. And interference from the "west" has also been a negative influence in modern times. Consider Lenin[1] and western economic advice that led to the looting of the Russian sta…

I'm not pinning anything on anyone. The parent comment claimed that "Russians like strong leaders" is a falsehood yet the history claims otherwise.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#135

Post by brandmeyer » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 2:54 PM UTC

tialaramex wrote: post #97

fho wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean ... That's what's cryptography is for. Making sure that what you receive is from the sender you expect it from. Ie sign the current data package plus the current time. Receivers ignore everything with an incorrect timestamp and/or wrong signature. Now you only have to make sure that you don't lose your private keys.

But these signals are from the real GPS birds, and they are really the ones for Las Vegas three weeks ago. They are completely authentic.

It sounds like you are referring to a replay attack.

Mental model tweak: The signals aren't for a specific location, they are world-wide. So the "for Las Vegas" part doesn't work.

Replay attacks are just a kind of denial of service. In that case, you may as well just use jamming. Spoofing attacks are far more dangerous, and cryptographic signing defeats them effectively.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#136

Post by baybal2 » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

sdoering wrote: post #15

waihtis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suggesting Russians are playing a rational game here? I think the cover has been pulled on the Russian "master strategy".. it's literally a hierarchy of terror and lies, where everyone will do whatever it takes to please the irrational autocrat. I have been spamming this lecture everywhere since the war started and again I think anyone who's still questioning the Russian operative reality should watch it: Evaluation…

You start by "suggesting Russians are playing a rational game..." but literally the next sentence is condescending western rhetoric. We don't know the strategy and the plan. We might, even maybe reasonably, deduce that Russian leadership thought that Ucrain would fall more quickly. And that some form of stable solution would be the result. But most people don't only have one plan to reach a longer term strategic goal…

No post body was provided.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#137

Post by brandmeyer » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 2:58 PM UTC

bagels wrote: post #29

miohtama wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the United States's interest to mess up with GPS now?

To deny access to Russia is one reason. Not saying it's the only reason, or that it's not more likely that Russia has done this.

Its a stupid reason. Russian military equipment uses GLONASS. Granted, GLONASS is just barely limping along, but it does work.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#138

Post by Terry_Roll » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 3:09 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #2

The clear suggestion is that it is Russia doing it. Other than as an f-u, I don’t understand why they would though. If I have an effective weapon (GPS spoofer), surely I don’t want to alert the enemy to it, lest they develop defences. So eg say NATO were overreliant on GPS, incidents of spoofing like this will cause them to rethink and reduce that reliance, or harden the system.

> GPS spoofer), surely I don’t want to alert the enemy to it, lest they develop defences

What normally happens is the GPS stops working and then you lose your satnav, so you dont know where you are going until you reset the satnav and even then it might not work. This is why Streetview logged all the wifi it could find and uses wifi to roughly place a phone in an area to make the gps locating algorithms faster.

Now it could be a way to get a jet to fly over enemy territory, but it could also be an excuse to false flag. Russia's Satnav is better around the north and south pole, the US is better around the equator from what I understand.

With the fog of war, its impossible for most people to know who is telling the truth, in much the same way its impossible to tell if a multivitamin contains what is claimed on the bottle, or some cheese has been aged for several years and not several months.

Society is constructed in such a way to be dependent on others and have to trust others which means you can be manipulated by more knowledgeable persons.

In other words we are all pawns.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#139

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 3:14 PM UTC

waihtis wrote: post #109

LAC-Tech wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Yeltsin regime was more democratic to you? How so?

More democratic to what? To an autocracy? Yes by definition

Yeltsin did do a coup in 1993. But still, yeah.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#140

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 3:17 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #6

rich_sasha wrote: post #2

The clear suggestion is that it is Russia doing it. Other than as an f-u, I don’t understand why they would though. If I have an effective weapon (GPS spoofer), surely I don’t want to alert the enemy to it, lest they develop defences. So eg say NATO were overreliant on GPS, incidents of spoofing like this will cause them to rethink and reduce that reliance, or harden the system.

GPS jamming is not a secret technology, it’s something that you can expect in a war zone and it’s a technology you can buy on aliexpress. GPS is actually a couple of different signals, and the general public gets the shitty one. The military has some additional protections and better receivers.

Also, do they also use Gallileo, Glonass..? is the Chinese GPS up yet ?