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Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

reuters.com

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Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#131

Post by jollybean »

weisk wrote: post #68
simne wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank You for answer. What I see now, kremlin for sure have not prepared for long term war campaign, they just have not built hospitals for wounded (thanks to western sat photos, provided by official sources), and this is extremely important, because in real war, 80% wounded die within 24h if have not received medical care in nearest 1-2 hours. And if will be resistance, attacking forces will have very large number o…

You seem like a knowledgeable person. What does Ukraine really have, that Putin so desperately wants? And best of luck to you, dear friends.

"What does Ukraine really have, that Putin so desperately wants? "

It's not 'what it has' it's 'what it is'.

Putin views the Ukraine as 'part of Russia' - that's it.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time with this.

Imagine if Mexico invaded Texas in 1950 and 'won'. A lot of Americans would want to 'take it back'.

Now I don't believe that this analogy is real in terms of the Ukraine situation (Imagine if those Mexicans wanted to be Mexicans and definitely did not want to be part of the USA...), but you can see how Putin + Co. propaganda would like you to see it.

I'm wary that there will be much of an insurgency in Ukraine - it's big, open, spread out, there are few places to hide.

We'll see.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#132

Post by jollybean »

wolverine876 wrote: post #80
weisk wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem like a knowledgeable person. What does Ukraine really have, that Putin so desperately wants? And best of luck to you, dear friends.

I'm not the person you asked, but the very well-known understanding, going back probably to Napoleon or earlier (among foreign policy experts), is that Ukraine has geopolitics. Geography is far more important to national power than non-experts realize. Without Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, Russia loses sea access to the Black Sea and thus the Mediterranean for their navy (and also for trade), which historically has be…

It's not geography, it's history and ethnicity.

Putin view Ukraine as a natural part of the Russian Empire - they are his vassals.

They can't have a free and prosperous Ukraine that has 'gone to the side of the west'.

The Crimean peninsula is just a bonus.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#134

Post by HWR_14 »

weisk wrote: post #68
simne wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank You for answer. What I see now, kremlin for sure have not prepared for long term war campaign, they just have not built hospitals for wounded (thanks to western sat photos, provided by official sources), and this is extremely important, because in real war, 80% wounded die within 24h if have not received medical care in nearest 1-2 hours. And if will be resistance, attacking forces will have very large number o…

You seem like a knowledgeable person. What does Ukraine really have, that Putin so desperately wants? And best of luck to you, dear friends.

So, there's a lot.

For one, Putin seems to want to reassemble the USSR as a vanity project. Further, this all started (years ago) when the Ukrainians removed out their Moscow friendly president. Putin doesn't like reminders that months of sustained protests can really effect change and remove leaders, especially so close to Russia.

Crimea is the only "warm water" port that Russia has access to to gain access for the end and the Atlantic.

The Ukraine has a ton of farmland. This may be more valuable soon because China imports a ton of food and if you're planning on a Sino-Russo alliance cut off from western powers, food is important.

Similarly, it shares a lot of the fresh water sources with the rest of Europe. I don't know if it's something he can attempt to monopolize, but controlling water into the region is at least as good as natural gas, and less seasonal with less ability to diversify like to green energy.

The USSR located some specialty heavy industry in Ukraine. If it still exists, it might be valuable. I read, but can not confirm, that it was part of the strategic goal of the USSR to make sure each constituent state wasn't self sufficient to encourage national unity. But that could just be BS. Reasoning like that is almost certainly why Crimea was given to the Ukraine.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#135

Post by saurik »

mvkel wrote: post #123
mahkeiro wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bur remember that by treaty US and UK (and Russia of course) promised to defend Ukraine in exchange of their nukes. At least if they try to go after you, you can still argue that you were trying to comply to a treaty that both countries have decided to ignore.

Upon orders from the government, sure. Taking the law into your own hands based on vague interpretation is different.

Yeah: my city signing an MOU saying they will enforce parking restrictions doesn't mean I have the OK to camp out on the street and write my own tickets.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#136

Post by zja »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #127
HWR_14 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it's probably legal for you to fill out the application as a US citizen, as the Ukrainians are also asking for defensive help. If you have or want a US security clearance there may be issues in helping a foreign power, but absent that you can probably stay on the right side of the line. Obviously, you'd want a real legal opinion. I do wonder at what point the US just declares Russian computer systems beyond t…

Aren't Russian computer systems already beyond the protection of US law?

No

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#138

Post by HWR_14 »

charles_f wrote: post #92
dschulz wrote: post #75

Probably I'm just naive but I really don't understand this cyber warfare theater. Why aren't all internet operators in the free world just blackholing all russian ASNs (complete with the other allied bullies) from the internet routing tables? Wouldn't this be enough to avert all the nasty attacks on critical infrastructure?

That would cut off the libgen though, so I'm against that.

In the case of a hot war involving hundreds of thousands of troops and the 4th vs 7th largest militaries, maybe free access to papers isn't the most pressing issue.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#139

Post by mlac »

stickfigure wrote: post #100
bink wrote: post #94

This thread is mostly full of jokes, and that's cool. But more seriously I'm exactly the kind of person I suppose this is meant to appeal to. I've spent the last 2-3 decades breaking into systems. Many of these systems comprise what the US calls "critical infrastructure". That's pipelines, power generation, transmission, distribution. Air traffic control systems. Government agencies. I'm based in the US. The problem…

I think it's reasonable to assume that for at least the next few months, you have a strange form of "diplomatic immunity" for attacks in Russia. No jury in the US would convict you, even in the unlikely event someone wanted to prosecute (which would be political suicide here). So, have at it.

Recognize two more things if you do this:

1) you will never be able to travel to Russia or a Russian controlled territory. Ever.

2) you will always be at risk for a hack-back or other issues when the dust settles and they seek revenge.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#140

Post by deepGem »

stickfigure wrote: post #100
bink wrote: post #94

This thread is mostly full of jokes, and that's cool. But more seriously I'm exactly the kind of person I suppose this is meant to appeal to. I've spent the last 2-3 decades breaking into systems. Many of these systems comprise what the US calls "critical infrastructure". That's pipelines, power generation, transmission, distribution. Air traffic control systems. Government agencies. I'm based in the US. The problem…

I think it's reasonable to assume that for at least the next few months, you have a strange form of "diplomatic immunity" for attacks in Russia. No jury in the US would convict you, even in the unlikely event someone wanted to prosecute (which would be political suicide here). So, have at it.

Am not from the US but this seems very risky. Is there someone at the government who can clarify such guarantees. Am also curious what are the high level logistics to carry out something like this. Do you seek an untraceable route to Ukarine from US ? Do you unleash a worm like Stuxnet that will eventually cripple all Russian cyber attack infra ?
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