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/r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

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Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#131

Post by jackling »

tgb wrote: post #28

I think this article is trying to have its cake and eat it too. If the sub has been sanewashed and overrun by average left-of-center opinions and become wildly popular, then how can it be true that Doreen still represents the movement? The movement changed, as the article points out, and therefore Doreen was a terrible choice of representative. The fact that she predates the change is exactly the reason she is not re…

If you see the interview with Doreen, it seems like she is actually in favour of what the author refers to as the new movement. What stands out to me is that she says that the movement is to reduce the work that people are forced to do, that they still want to put in effort and labour but not in a position where they feel trapped. This seems to contrast what the author says was the original purpose of the subreddit; to abolish work.

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#133

Post by fullshark »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #40

This reminds me of "Defund the Police", wherein supporters would try to convince others that the slogan did not literally mean what it says. Like AntiWork, It seems to have been started by those who genuinely wanted to abolish the police. But as time went on people joined who instead wanted to reform the police by dramatically cutting back what they were meant to respond to. But the slogan stayed, and was very mislea…

I think in both of these cases, and in the case of the Cap Hill Autonomous Zone (No we mean Cap Hill Occupied Protest actually!) the shift in rhetoric is not so much from the new people joining, but from the movement getting a reality check and embarrassing itself, then scaling back its ambitions.

Edit: The analogue on the right (but not as clean I guess) would be the attempt to reframe the Jan 6 protests after that utter "embarrassment." They wanted to overturn the election but now the right is spinning hard to reframe the rhetoric. Basically your radicals work hard building a groundswell and excitement around some idea, eventually embarrass themselves, and you have to do damage control. That's modern day national politics.

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#134

Post by [deleted] »

the_snooze wrote: post #106
BitwiseFool wrote: post #40

This reminds me of "Defund the Police", wherein supporters would try to convince others that the slogan did not literally mean what it says. Like AntiWork, It seems to have been started by those who genuinely wanted to abolish the police. But as time went on people joined who instead wanted to reform the police by dramatically cutting back what they were meant to respond to. But the slogan stayed, and was very mislea…

>Defund the Police That slogan was straight up political malpractice. If you have to explain your position, then you're already losing. Something like "government accountability" or "serve the people" probably could have gotten wider support than "defund the police."

[deleted]

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#135

Post by zqfm »

jdkjs wrote: post #85
zqfm wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to love the 4chan-style contrarian attitude until, in high school people I knew were killed in Iraq. Then I started to realize that those kinds of nihilist attitudes have real-world consequences. Since then, that attitude has become mainstream (or perhaps just my awareness of it) and following has been a constant trail of death and misery. I can't not take it seriously anymore when my friends and loved ones ar…

As far as I can tell, 4chan is vehemently against the current neoliberal wars. They laughed their asses off at the US abandoning Afghanistan and are questioning why the NATO has to be in Ukraine at all. Perhaps I misunderstood your tone.

That definitely wasn't the impression I got back when I frequented it but I'm glad if they're more antiwar now.

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#136

Post by 3pt14159 »

I once discussed one of these eye rolling things with a real life friend of mine over the internet and I finally discovered what "abolish the police" really meant to him. He was knowingly being intellectually dishonest in order to move the goalposts.

I've dated someone like that too and it only came out during an argument when I started writing down what she literally was saying and she finally said that her choices of words were how she felt in the moment, not descriptions of reality even if they seemed like that to me, the listener of what she was saying.

This has made my life so much better. When I hear something someone says to me now I have an extra filter to run it through. It's no longer a choice just between the person being dishonest about the facts or being unintentionally wrong about the facts. They could mean it in a different way.

I still think their way is wrong, but now I can deal with it in a practical sense, like waiting for someone to calm down or calling out intellectual dishonesty.

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#137

Post by dec0dedab0de »

scotty79 wrote: post #34

I think this setup illustrated ridiculousness of both sides. You confront authentic (troubled) person doing what she wants with another human so meticulously styled, plucked, tanned and dressed at corporate expense, walking at extremely shot leash with every one of his words tightly controlled, with all the scripted emotions. He looks as if he was a voice box made of plastic. With this contrast you see how bad the wo…

You usually watch news as if it was normal. You look at news anchors as if they were people, not corporate half-robots. Only such contrast gives you a chance to see them for what they are.

I haven't been able to watch the news in about 20 years. Pro wrestlers are more sincere than most news anchors

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#138

Post by 0F »

dale_glass wrote: post #119
0F wrote: post #22

[flagged]

Communism isn't really about "free shit", though. The slogan is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" -- not that you get to sit on your butt and somehow everything still works out. You're still very much expected to work, in fact if you have any ability it's probably illegal for you not to. Now whether communism actually works or not is another matter, but I don't really see where you…

Yes, communism is about that slogan. And anti work is about labor reform. Neither are true in practice.

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#139

Post by quitit »

tgb wrote: post #28

I think this article is trying to have its cake and eat it too. If the sub has been sanewashed and overrun by average left-of-center opinions and become wildly popular, then how can it be true that Doreen still represents the movement? The movement changed, as the article points out, and therefore Doreen was a terrible choice of representative. The fact that she predates the change is exactly the reason she is not re…

Subreddit's changing their spots isn't uncommon, it's the norm for reddit.

The author has a very clear agenda here, and while they're welcome to construct a case for that view, they've left out inconvenient details while attempting to appear neutral.

The core issue is that the subreddit already had an agreement that no one would attempt to represent the movement or do interviews. The forethought there was that a reddit mod (or similar) are unlikely to be sufficiently prepared to act as a spokesperson for a politically sensitive movement. Doreen's actions were entirely self-serving and the subreddit was absolutely right to make a stand, especially as Doreen did not represent the community or its views - as given by the enormous backlash.

It's deeply disingenuous to suggest that the work reform principles of the subreddit are moot because a mod started the original subreddit as a protest against work.

Re: /r/antiwork: A tragedy of sanewashing and social gentrification

#140

Post by foogazi »

Miner49er wrote: post #37
BowBun wrote: post #21

My only question is, prior to the 'my manager sucks' posts and people getting encouraged to stand up for their rights/humanity, what exactly was r/antiwork _doing_? I feel like a majority of users still want to abolish wage slavery without the extreme anarchist association. Demanding better pay and treatment from our employers is an actionable item on the road to that. Besides just not working and living in poverty,…

You can look at it on the internet archive to get an idea. Here's a random day in 2018: https://web.archive.org/web/20180903051111/https://www.reddi...

It’s all memes now
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