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Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

boston.com

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Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#131

Post by hughrr »

beeboop wrote: post #125
garbageT wrote: post #73

Disclaimer about this guy Ogan, if you track his online accounts it’s very anti-Tesla auto-pilot/self-driving. Rightfully so in some situations. Also he is a investor in a Chinese competitor to Tesla (EV and self-driving abilities). Take his words with a grain of salt.

anti Musk and anti Tesla astroturfing is a tale as old as time. A lot of it has always been rooted in people with financial interests in Tesla doing poorly I always flag these topics. The comments are nearly verbatim identical to the last 20 times FSD gets posted and nothing about the conversation is interesting

aka the problems are the same as they were. That’s a good metric for the lack of progress on the issues.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#132

Post by ajmurmann »

ryandvm wrote: post #119
npace12 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't compare. It cannot drive by itself yet, it disengages in many normal-to-a-human situations with no ability to resume by itself.

I'm having trouble understanding your point. You're more scared of rich boys in lambos than of a Tesla that "disengages in many normal-to-a-human situations with no ability to resume"?

The Tesla isn't allowed to drive around without human supervision yet. The rich kid in the Lambo is

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#133

Post by dylan604 »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #39

The driver probably has it in "assertive" mode. Outside of assertive mode it is actually annoyingly conservative. So much so that I often take manual control at turns to avoid impatient drivers honking at me as it inches through the intersection. With that said, I hate driving in Boston, so much so whenever I go there I park outside the city and take the T (subway) the rest of the way. I would not turn on FSD in Bost…

As someone that used to live 45 minutes outside of town, I'd kind of be okay with allowing the car to drive the monotonous highway bits and then taking over manual control for the city bits of driving.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#134

Post by simion314 »

npace12 wrote: post #120
simion314 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't drive illegal for public road cars, so my point is why should a car that can randomly drive you into a child should be legal for public roads? Let's assume Elon and Tesla are perfect, you still need the law for less perfect CEOs and companies right? This less perfect ones might do bad things.

Can't any car with a drive-by-wire technically just randomly drive into a child? Yeah, the fact that more unpredictable software is involved definitely increases the risk, but where exactly would the line be?

The line would be here IMO, let me know why you think different

Step 1: you get some independent persons from the government (Tesla or Google, etc pays for this so no need to cry taxes)

Step 2: you drive the cars in the area where you want to approve it for testing/production , you record all mistakes and times the car ahd to intervene

Step 3: drive all year around, all weather conditions, all traffic conditions

Step 4: you analyze the data, see how many times you had to intervene and compute the damages that would have occurred. Get some real statisticins that could put bounds around the damages.

Using the data from 4 you ask the population to vote what is the correct value they are comfortable with.

What Tesla is doing now do not match because:

1 the tests are not transparent, we don't know or we can't trust Tesla for the number of mistakes the AI is doing

2 updates invalidate previous tests and stats

3 the computer will not drive in all conditions and is differing harder parts of the road to the human so this also is screwing the stats, if you let the AI to drive the easy part and the human the hard part then for sure the AI has a good record.

Even if Tesla is perfect you need this laws for the imperfect companies that would move fast... so think about this as laws that will protect you from the evil Google car or some Chinese brand

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#136

Post by ajmurmann »

karaterobot wrote: post #69
npace12 wrote: post #40

Just to clarify the current process of being able to use the Tesla FSD beta because I've seen a lot of comments by people thinking Tesla released this and cars are now just driving around without a human driver: 1. pay $12k or $200/mo 2. Opt-in for beta. Drive over 100-200 miles and maintain a 98%+ "safety score" until you're selected (could be months) 3. Manually activate FSD each time you want to use it 4. Keep han…

Why would anybody ever use it then? If you have to monitor it and it does a bad job (in situations documented in that video), what is the value? I recognize that it does better in other situations, like open highways, but if you have to keep your hands on the wheel anyway, what is the benefit to the driver compared to older technology like assisted cruise control?

I wonder how this compares to more limited abilities like lane-keeping. I did a few 10hr drives between Oregon and California during the pandemic and the lane-keeping made this easier similarly to cruise control. I still has to watch it all the time, but it somehow made it more relaxed.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#137

Post by dylan604 »

hughrr wrote: post #68
andrewla wrote: post #29

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/fsd is the current definitive take on the subject. Watching this video I really had no idea how bad it was. My opinion is that we will never have full self driving without infrastructure updates; basically putting the cars on rails and forbidding non-self-driving cars and pedestrians. Even then it's dicey. At least part of the reason is that a self-driving car can never have skin in…

This. So much this. It’s 2022. We still have meat flavoured train drivers and they have a massively constrained set of complexity to navigate.

It helps when those meat bags aren't on their phones just like in cars.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#138

Post by hughrr »

thesausageking wrote: post #127
pessimizer wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. This stuff can go on indefinitely until the big money pulls out, and the big money doesn't pull out until something happens to make the investment embarrassing to mention to your peers. It took an expose from the WSJ (which probably wouldn't have worked from any other paper) to do it for Theranos, it simply took a memorable, repeatable joke to do the same type of thing for Bill Cosby. I honestly don't thi…

I don't see a huge implosion happening. What will tank Tesla's stock is when competitors catch up and pass them. Two years ago, Tesla was the only viable option. Today, buyers have a lot of options and with Tesla's continued problems with quality and service, that will mean other makers will continue to capture more market share. On the autonomous driving side, Waymo and other teams are years ahead of Tesla. Elon's b…

Agree with this.

I suspect someone will release an actually affordable (comparable to ICE up front and ownership costs), safe, basic EV with decent range and standard car features which has better quality and less hype around it and Tesla will be lose the ass end of the model 3 market. It’ll all collapse from there.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#139

Post by CultMember009 »

hughrr wrote: post #88
pessimizer wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. This stuff can go on indefinitely until the big money pulls out, and the big money doesn't pull out until something happens to make the investment embarrassing to mention to your peers. It took an expose from the WSJ (which probably wouldn't have worked from any other paper) to do it for Theranos, it simply took a memorable, repeatable joke to do the same type of thing for Bill Cosby. I honestly don't thi…

I think it is 100% fraudulent to charge for the FSD option that isn’t enabled at delivery of the vehicle. Edit: to qualify this my father paid over £5000 for it three years ago.

No post body was provided.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#140

Post by dylan604 »

antattack wrote: post #35

Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again. Obviously the system is not ready for such narrow streets with no line markings and bad visibility. Just don't engage it in such situations. I sure hope that the future iterations of FSD beta will assess the environment and ask the driver to take over sooner.

>Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again.

Does that mean insanity is doing stupid things but expecting different results?

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