Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

darlinghq.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 210 posts

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#131

Post by angerman »

SmileyKeith wrote: post #30
gh123man wrote: post #7

Has anyone been able to use darling for iOS CI jobs yet? Admittedly I haven't researched this in a while, but one of the biggest hurdles in large scale iOS development is sane DevOps infrastructure. I know due to Apple's TOS that you will never be able to build, sign, and distribute your app on non-Apple hardware. But i'd love to use darling to run unit tests/CI jobs on commodity cloud infrastructure. Even if you do…

For bazel users there is also this project[0] which runs the tools natively on Linux without requiring this layer. Although you lose tools like ibtool / actool which don't have open source re-implementations. [0]: https://github.com/apple-cross-toolchain/rules_applecross

How do they obtains the mac/ios/... SDKs? I thought they were packed with Xcode, and it wasn't permissible to extract them?

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#132

Post by olyjohn »

seanw444 wrote: post #102
ivolimmen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some Dev commandline tools and compilers are starting to work, so these kind of environments will probably come first which will provide better performance than running under virtual machines. Then it's not useful as the only thing interesting on macOs are the GUI applications. All the tools I used on macOs for the command line where already available on Linux.

As blunt as that is, I have to say I agree and thought the same thing reading through their page. I'm sure it's been quite a feat to get this far, but until GUI is supported well, I can't think of a single thing I'd ever personally use it for.

You gotta start somewhere.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#133

Post by selfhoster11 »

999900000999 wrote: post #91
twblalock wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These are the same people who say they don't want to run Linux because they don't want to compile their sound card drivers. They are already way outside of rational territory and deep into religious territory. It's rational for me to want my sound card to work without having to compile code. No other operating system would make me compile code to fulfill such a rudimentary and basic expectation. That's not religion…

Yes and no. I've found numerous times Ubuntu just doesn't want to work. Ether Wifi or Bluetooth is broken. Fedora seems to be a bit better, it's my daily driver on my old lightweight laptop. My big gaming PC runs Windows. I make music and play games with it, no matter what the FOSS community wants to think , Linux doesn't come close in these aspects. Each OS does different things well. Linux is very good for running…

Ubuntu is the only distro where my Bluetooth headphones reliably connected and auto-switched to stereo audio (not headset) mode. It's gotten a lot better, though perhaps only with quality hardware.

As far as WiFi is concerned, I'm more likely than not to blame the crap connection on the access point. I've had great success replacing rubbish APs with something basic but good, but for work I want wires if at all reasonable.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#134

Post by selfhoster11 »

pxc wrote: post #130
hitpointdrew wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

option + command +f Pop-up box comes up, here you can have as many credentials as you need, it saves them, just double click one and it will enter it in your terminal window. This an absolute life changing feature for me. I manage a ton of servers, and yeah we use SSO to ssh into them, but that is just ssh access. Once you are on a server they maybe several passwords and or accounts you need to login to or accesses (…

> Password management is THE feature that is painfully missing from Terminator, Tilix, etc. Never thought of incorporating this in the terminal emulator. I just use a command line client for my usual password manager. Any reason you can't do that?

I want an integrated password workflow, and calling a command line password manager client is the last thing I want to have to remember about. Even if it saves a few keystrokes, it's one less thing to think about.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#135

Post by LeFantome »

twblalock wrote: post #43
freedomben wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having Linux run iOS, macOS, Android, and Windows applications running would be nothing less than mind-boggling, and would finally get people to stop yelling that nothing runs on Linux Nothing will stop those people from yelling that, because it hasn't been true in a very long time and that doesn't stop them. These are the same people who say they don't want to run Linux because they don't want to compile their sou…

> These are the same people who say they don't want to run Linux because they don't want to compile their sound card drivers. They are already way outside of rational territory and deep into religious territory. It's rational for me to want my sound card to work without having to compile code. No other operating system would make me compile code to fulfill such a rudimentary and basic expectation. That's not religion…

I am not going to defend the Linux Desktop as there are many legitimate reasons to criticize it ( though the laptop I use the most does run Manjaro ). I must say though that suggesting the average Linux user has to compile their sound card drivers is pretty out of touch with even remotely recent Linux offerings. At this point, Linux is far more likely to support your hardware out of the box than either MacOS or Windows—-especially for older hardware. I am far more likely to be hunting around the web for Windows drivers or even totally unable to install Windows on my hardware than I am to have to do any hardware configuration at all on Linux. And I have considered putting Linux on a old iMac because Apple no longer supports the latest OS on it and this has started to become a compatibility hassle. In many ways, Linux requires less futzing around than the competition.

One area where I am dramatically wrong about this is with regards to high performance video drivers though that is improving. Even there though, a distro like Manjaro will likely work perfectly out of the box. To get performance a gamer wants might require a fair bit more knowledge but that said gamers tend to spend quite a bit of time managing and tuning things even on Windows.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#136

Post by aasasd »

stuaxo wrote: post #51
dvirsky wrote: post #47

Looks like an incredible project, but if GUI is not working, what is the current use case for it? Command line apps are usually open source and can be compiled in either system. What are people using this for in day to day work?

GUI will come eventually. Some Dev commandline tools and compilers are starting to work, so these kind of environments will probably come first which will provide better performance than running under virtual machines.

> GUI will come eventually

You mean like GNUStep?

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#137

Post by KerrAvon »

zrm wrote: post #116
microtonal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to run apps like Microsoft Office, Wine is probably a far better bet. I'd be surprised if Darling runs complex Cocoa apps anytime soon.

> If you want to run apps like Microsoft Office, Wine is probably a far better bet. I'd be surprised if Darling runs complex Cocoa apps anytime soon. The advantage of Wine is that it's more mature. The disadvantage is that Windows is possibly the least Unix-like operating system in popular use and the number of ugly hacks they have to use to make Linux do what Windows does will never cease to be a source of friction…

I’m not sure the similarity is a benefit — the systems are divergent in some of the fundamentals. It might be better if they were less similar so that the differences were more visible.

There’s also libraries like GCD which GUI applications use and expect to work and have interesting interactions with pthreads. I’d guess it will be a while before they have simpler third-party apps working let alone something like Office. I see that they have the Coocotron examples working but Cocotron is the precise subset of the API that they’ve actually implemented so it’s not really indicative of the work in front of them.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#138

Post by LeFantome »

twblalock wrote: post #43
freedomben wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having Linux run iOS, macOS, Android, and Windows applications running would be nothing less than mind-boggling, and would finally get people to stop yelling that nothing runs on Linux Nothing will stop those people from yelling that, because it hasn't been true in a very long time and that doesn't stop them. These are the same people who say they don't want to run Linux because they don't want to compile their sou…

> These are the same people who say they don't want to run Linux because they don't want to compile their sound card drivers. They are already way outside of rational territory and deep into religious territory. It's rational for me to want my sound card to work without having to compile code. No other operating system would make me compile code to fulfill such a rudimentary and basic expectation. That's not religion…

I was going to say that I have not compiled a driver in years but I remember that I did compile a driver in 2020. It was to add support for a Xbox controller so that I could use it to play Steam games on my laptop. It was pretty straight-forward but I did have to run a compiler ( maybe via a script - I cannot remember ). I am not sure how easy it is to use an Xbox controller with Mac or Windows.

I am not a big gamer on any platform. In fact, I was using my son’s Steam account. He uses Windows himself but I was running it on Linux. I only played a few titles but they all played pretty well given that it was on an older laptop. Steam itself installed from the standard Manjaro repository but I did have to compile a driver for the controller.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#139

Post by mastazi »

dvirsky wrote: post #93
stuaxo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GUI will come eventually. Some Dev commandline tools and compilers are starting to work, so these kind of environments will probably come first which will provide better performance than running under virtual machines.

What are some command line tools that aren't available natively on Linux? I'm not trying to dismiss or be negative, just really curious.

Elsewhere in this thread, iOS CI/tests have been mentioned.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#140

Post by LeFantome »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #114
wlesieutre wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever got in a situation where your sound card wasn't supported on macOS, instead of "you can compile a driver" the answer you'll get is "throw away your sound card and buy supported hardware." You could apply the same fix to a Linux computer and purchase known working hardware, but because you have the option of fixing the software yourself that makes it a worse operating system?

Exactly how does one get into a situation where your sound card isn't supported on macOS, other than by putting together a Hackintosh? :) You're going to have to look for some pretty edgy edge cases where you will be left rending your shirt and wailing "if only I could compile an open source driver for [insert thing] but the cursed closed nature of Apple products prevents me from doing so!" (I mean, I'm pretty sure p…

Apple stops supporting their own hardware all the time. They dropped a bunch of video cards especially in recent releases of the OS.

How this translates is by Apple officially dropping support for your whole computer. I guess you consider getting trapped on an old OS that stops getting security updates and becomes incompatibility with the latest applications to be superior to the situation on Linux. I do not.

Or, as others have pointed out, having to upgrade perfectly good hardware because the OS no longer supports it. That has happened to me on both Mac and Windows.

Honestly, better hardware support is one of the reasons that I have started using Linux more and more than proprietary options.

I actually really like Windows 10 but I have had way more hardware issues with it on my primary laptop. I had odd performance problems with it sometimes and the mouse pointer would lock up frequently ( Windows factory installed ). I put Windows 11 on this computer ( new enough hardware to meet all the Windows 11 asks ) hoping it would improve things. It was a disaster. My Bluetooth headphones rarely worked. Plugging wired headphones into the port would not silence the speakers. Blue screen of death ( have not see that in years - looks much friendlier now ) all the time which you know is a driver problem. Anyway, I have since out Linux on it and all my hardware woes are in the past. As I said, I actually really like Windows but it is a relief to get it off this machine.

Post reply on HN