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Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

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Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#61

Post by freedomben »

coder543 wrote: post #57
twblalock wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Windows doesn't work for everybody either, and I do mean actual problems with Windows not working, even pre-installed from the factory. I don't even have to look outside the circle of people I know in person to have seen this. Googling for Windows not working with $X specific laptop instantly reveals quite a treasure trove beyond the people I know, where $X can be pretty much any Windows laptop. Everything from finge…

Agreed, you definitely missed my point, but in your defense the point was implied rather than explicitly stated so I'll take the fault for not being clear.

I don't mind building my own drivers (in fact I maintain one[1]), but I would never expect the average person to have to do that. It would be entirely unreasonable.

But, the vast majority of linux users don't have to compile any drivers. Unless you have some obscure piece of hardware or one that is so new that the driver isn't mainlined yet, you don't have to worry about it.

You say you've been using linux for 20 years. which driver(s) in the last 5 or so years have you had to compile yourself?

[1]: https://github.com/FreedomBen/rtl8188ce-linux-driver

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#62

Post by tragictrash »

twblalock wrote: post #52
colordrops wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the point. You typically don't have to compile anything for your sound card, assuming you even have one anyone considering that motherboards have had integrated sound forever now.

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#63

Post by wlesieutre »

twblalock wrote: post #52
colordrops wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the point. You typically don't have to compile anything for your sound card, assuming you even have one anyone considering that motherboards have had integrated sound forever now.

Quoted post unavailable.

If you ever got in a situation where your sound card wasn't supported on macOS, instead of "you can compile a driver" the answer you'll get is "throw away your sound card and buy supported hardware."

You could apply the same fix to a Linux computer and purchase known working hardware, but because you have the option of fixing the software yourself that makes it a worse operating system?

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#64

Post by saghm »

twblalock wrote: post #52
colordrops wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the point. You typically don't have to compile anything for your sound card, assuming you even have one anyone considering that motherboards have had integrated sound forever now.

Quoted post unavailable.

I've used Linux for around 8.5 years now, and I've never once had to compile a sound card driver to get my sound working. On the half dozen or so laptops I've installed it on since then, every one of them just had sound working without needing to compile anything.

>Every time Linux on the desktop is discussed, the reaction of the Linux desktop community is predictable: defending Linux and its problems, and downplaying the difficulty that many users have. A ton of people say "it works for me on my hardware" or "I didn't need to compile any drivers" or "the games that I want to play work fine". In fact, this comment thread has good examples of this type of reaction. So what? Until it works for everyone it's just not good enough.

I'm a bit confused; have you actually had this experience when you had to compile your sound card driver in the past ten years? It would be totally reasonable for you to be unhappy if you had, but given how much you're criticizing, I have to assume that if you had this experience you would have mentioned it. Given that, it sounds like the only criticism is that someone could theoretically happen to need to do this, but that's not really any different from any other operating system; the difference is that if your sound card doesn't work on Windows, you don't have the option to compile it at all. I'm not sure how often people have driver issues on Windows these days, having not used it much since before I swapped to Linux, but I'm not going to prematurely get angry about the idea that people _could_ be having driver issues but not have the option to compile their own if I don't actually hear about anyone having these issues.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#65

Post by danachow »

twblalock wrote: post #52
colordrops wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the point. You typically don't have to compile anything for your sound card, assuming you even have one anyone considering that motherboards have had integrated sound forever now.

Quoted post unavailable.

>> They are already way outside of rational territory and deep into religious territory

> Until it works for everyone it's just not good enough.

You are pretty well proving the GP point. There is no system that works for everyone. Windows can be very challenging to get up and running on hardware setups that are not the most common.

> Windows and MacOS don't make people do that

False. And it's funny that this is about sound drivers. I have a piece of older but perfectly working Roland audio/MIDI equipment that uses USB drivers that are no longer supported on modern MacOS. How did I get it working? By compiling a fucking driver the other day. (And yes it works perfectly out of the box on any Linux kernel for the past 20 years).

Now go ahead and move the goalposts about older hardware not mattering or some nonsense. This hasn't been the only frustration with MacOS. It took these clowns the better part of a year to fix VLAN configuration in the network setup window. The only way to configure them for a lot of hardware was to drop down to the command line - so much for working for everyone.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#66

Post by andjd »

Related unrelated comment. Is there any effort to make Darwin itself user friendly? Everything I've heard anecdotally is that Darwin is a world of hurt unless you really, really know what you're doing. It seems like that might be a slightly easier path towards having an open-source OS that can run mac apps than building a whole compatibility layer over Linux.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#67

Post by ivolimmen »

stuaxo wrote: post #51
dvirsky wrote: post #47

Looks like an incredible project, but if GUI is not working, what is the current use case for it? Command line apps are usually open source and can be compiled in either system. What are people using this for in day to day work?

GUI will come eventually. Some Dev commandline tools and compilers are starting to work, so these kind of environments will probably come first which will provide better performance than running under virtual machines.

> Some Dev commandline tools and compilers are starting to work, so these kind of environments will probably come first which will provide better performance than running under virtual machines.

Then it's not useful as the only thing interesting on macOs are the GUI applications. All the tools I used on macOs for the command line where already available on Linux.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#68

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

freedomben wrote: post #20
mkdirp wrote: post #14

Lots of questions around GUI apps. As someone pointed out, GUI apps have been "almost" working for years. Darling looks great but it hasn't gotten near as much love as Wine has gotten. I've been keeping an eye on it, and will continue to keep an eye it, and I've noticed the development is very slow. At the rate it's going, it'll be years before it'll be a viable solution like Wine is. I hope visibility for it will in…

> Having Linux run iOS, macOS, Android, and Windows applications running would be nothing less than mind-boggling, and would finally get people to stop yelling that nothing runs on Linux Nothing will stop those people from yelling that, because it hasn't been true in a very long time and that doesn't stop them. These are the same people who say they don't want to run Linux because they don't want to compile their sou…

Google all the sound problems people had and the solutions for the 2020 Dell XPS 17. People have that attitude because it still happens from time to time. It’s much rarer. But it still happens.
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