Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#131

Post by nradov » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

femto wrote: post #87

jeeeb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to hijack this too much but the Australian vaccine rollout has been widely panned but much of the problems come down to a choice to rely on domestically manufactured AZ vaccines. In a different timeline if the AZ vaccine hadn’t been associated with rare blood clotting, if Pfizer/Moderna hasn’t been able to scale manufacturing as well that strategy would be looking very good. It’s interesting to think that Canada…

The great hope of Australia's vaccine strategy was the University of Queensland's "Molecular Clamp". Unfortunately the clamp molecule, derived from part of the AIDS virus, triggered false positives in AIDS tests. They used that particular molecule as it was available and time scales were tight. A revised version is being developed with a new clamp molecule, but it won't be ready for the current round of vaccinations.…

Are false positive HIV tests really such a problem? I think most elderly patients wouldn't be concerned about that.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#132

Post by nitrogen » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 7:29 PM UTC

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #120

nitrogen wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure all those "kooks, cranks and opportunists" had breakfast, too. Should we start calling French toast a conspiracy? Last year when people (in the US) were protesting, violent protests were called "mostly peaceful" because it was claimed that there was a peaceful majority and an opportunistic minority. Why be so eager to do the opposite now and taint the majority with the odd few? In other words, someone off th…

> someone off the rails agreeing with a large group on one issue doesn't mean the whole group is off the rails. No, it means that the "nazi fuckwits" and "off the rails people" are _recruiting_ and doing so where the audience is worked up and receptive to their radicalisation.

What should we expect when we are pushing any disagreement whatsoever out of the mainstream? I was vaccinated the day I was able to be, but if I started browbeating everyone else around me who was slower, they'd just cut off contact and start associating with people who weren't total jerks to them.

If the only ones who are listening to the disagreeing moderates are radicals, we should expect an increase in radicalization.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#133

Post by dirtyid » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 7:31 PM UTC

Well we followed UK's gamble, procured and had access to more variety of vaccines. Got supplies from US sooner than expected despite their export ban because due to low uptake from antivaxxers. It was equal parts good planning and good fortune. Like how gov found billions of lost N95 masks from storage during PPE shortage. Also helps the major cities like Toronto and BC has sensible people with fairly high vax rate even globally.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#134

Post by jeeeb » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 8:17 PM UTC

orra wrote: post #94

jeeeb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to hijack this too much but the Australian vaccine rollout has been widely panned but much of the problems come down to a choice to rely on domestically manufactured AZ vaccines. In a different timeline if the AZ vaccine hadn’t been associated with rare blood clotting, if Pfizer/Moderna hasn’t been able to scale manufacturing as well that strategy would be looking very good. It’s interesting to think that Canada…

Where Australia really messed up was basically stopping use of AstraZeneca entirely (IIRC). Blood clot risk is much higher the younger you are[1]. It would have been far better to continue using AstraZeneca, but limit it to a certain age and older. [1] For example, 1.1 of the specific clots per 100 000 vaccinations of people in their 20s, falling to 0.2 per 100 000 in their 60s. https://wintoncentre.maths.cam.ac.uk/n…

I’m in my 30s and had AZ. It certainly wasn’t banned.

Until recently it was the only vaccine available for over 60s even.

Also FWIW. The risk of blood clots seems to be significantly higher in women than men. I think they should have focused on giving AZ to men and Pfizer to younger women.

For a while though some states were giving Pfizer to men in their 40s and 50s working from home, while recommending young women go and get dosed with AZ.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#135

Post by julianlam » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

hnbad wrote: post #92

kcartlidge wrote: post #62

> Canadian data now provides real world evidence that vaccinated people produce more antibodies if their second shot is delayed This was decided in March 2021 but the UK introduced a three month delay between vaccine shots in January 2021. What was it about the UK data (btw I'm British) that meant it didn't count as "real world" despite being months ahead of Canada? Don't get me wrong, the UK was laughed at for doing…

When I got my first shot of AstraZeneca/Oxford in Germany the doctor at the vaccination center told me that there was no downside to delaying the second shot because a longer delay would likely produce a greater immunity. The official recommendation was eight weeks. When the regulating body permitted cross-vaccinations with mRNA vaccines for people already vaccinated with Astra the recommendation for cross-vaccinatio…

Which is perfectly fine when you have ample vaccine supply. Canada did not, at the time.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#136

Post by pbaka » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #131

femto wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The great hope of Australia's vaccine strategy was the University of Queensland's "Molecular Clamp". Unfortunately the clamp molecule, derived from part of the AIDS virus, triggered false positives in AIDS tests. They used that particular molecule as it was available and time scales were tight. A revised version is being developed with a new clamp molecule, but it won't be ready for the current round of vaccinations.…

Are false positive HIV tests really such a problem? I think most elderly patients wouldn't be concerned about that.

Oh my sweet summer child. You wouldn't believe how much "action" goes on at night in those old age retirement communities.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#137

Post by mthoms » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

rubyist5eva wrote: post #122

mthoms wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In one province, the government has given itself vast power to perform warrantless search, confiscate property and conscript any person to the cause of "managing the emergency" I've not heard of that. Which province?

Saskatchewan. Recent developments are that they are pulling retired police officers out of retirement in order to enforce mandatory isolation at “secure isolation sites”. https://sun-nurses.sk.ca/pub/docs/member-resources/COVID19/M... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/saskatchewan-covid-...

That's blatant and shameless fear mongering. And your description of -

> the government has given itself vast power to perform warrantless search, confiscate property and conscript any person

Is entirely misleading if not outright false. The "emergency powers" are written to support fighting natural emergencies (primarily). Read the entire thing for context (warning:PDF) https://www.saskpublicsafety.ca/-/media/project/spsa/documen...

Besides, this act does not supersede Charter Rights.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#138

Post by mthoms » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

dgudkov wrote: post #121

mthoms wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. This article is based on scientific evidence. Please leave your politics out of it. Anyways, the vast majority seem perfectly happy with the CBC. Fewer than 1 in 5 Canadians want CBC funding decreased: poll https://ipolitics.ca/2019/05/13/nearly-80-of-canadians-want-...

This poll was done in 2019. Things were a bit different back then. The majority is probably still happy with CBC, but the proportion could change.

Paraphrasing your comment: "ok, you're right... but that could change one day!"

Thanks tips.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#139

Post by mthoms » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 9:35 PM UTC

rubyist5eva wrote: post #109

ipaddr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government's actions I can understand. The courts decisions based on 'unprecedence' events is troublesome. It creates a low barrier for the removal of any rights. An event will happen like this again.

Canadian citizens have freedom of movement in our constitution, it should not be contingent on getting an invasive medical procedure using a product from a foreign profit seeking pharmaceutical corporation.

The vast majority of Canadians would disagree with the characterization of simply getting a shot in the arm as an "invasive medical procedure". Please, stop the over dramatization. It's embarrassing.

Children, babies and pets get needles all the time. It's literally a fact of modern life.

You know what isn't a fact of modern life? Polio.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#140

Post by coronqueue » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #124

coronqueue wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccine passports in Canada are implemented using the https://smarthealth.cards/ standard. The QR codes are verifiable offline using digital signatures. The app used in BC is open source and available on Github: https://github.com/bcgov/BCVAX-iOS https://github.com/bcgov/BCVAX-Android It works just fine with the device in airplane mode, and does not maintain a record of the QR codes it has verified.

Let's look at the details a little closer. You download a QR code from the government. You are identified at this point and linked to your test results given your QR code. Those open source clients are for BC only. Assuming the app store version matches those clients that ensures you are not being track in private businesses during a vaccine check. This doesn't ensure the federal system is using the same clients or o…

In BC, secretly engaging in tracking would be both illegal and contrary to public policy. The system was reviewed by https://www.oipc.bc.ca/ as part of the rollout, and it's privacy-preserving properties were an essential part of the system being deemed acceptable.

There are multiple independent open source implementations of the SMART Health Card QR standard. It's really just some JSON + compression/encoding/digital signature.

The approach I have described is being used across Canada, and based on what has been indicated so far, this is in fact the intended direction of the federal government.

Vaccine passport checks are not conducted by government officials. They are conducted by the private businesses where the checks take place.

iOS 15 includes "app privacy report" functionality, and if the government were secretly submitting a different version to the app store than they claim they are (with secret reporting of scan data back to the mothership included in the app store builds), they would be trivially caught by anybody using this feature. It would show up in the network traffic logs that are available for anybody to inspect.

Mobile applications are also not that difficult to decompile to identify hidden functionality.

We can both be pretty sure that no tracking is taking place, and that it would be unrealistic for this system to be used for tracking purposes without that becoming a matter of public knowledge rather quickly.