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Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

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Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#111

Post by victorhooi »

defaultname wrote: post #6
refurb wrote: post #3

“Bold” strategy? Canada had no option if they wanted to vaccinate quickly. Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. Once it was apparent they couldn’t control the case numbers without vaccines, they took what they could get, prioritized first doses then realized they had different vaccines delivered for 2nd doses. The fact the mixed vaccines gives good protection is more luck than…

"Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines" Canada was one of the first countries to pre-order vaccines, signing massive agreements with just about every candidate maker. I'm aware of literally a single deal happening with another country prior to Canada's orders. What thwarted Canada's efforts was that the US defacto nationalized the medical establishment in that country, while Cana…

I'm not sure I buy this (about Canada).

Israel was one of the first to vaccinate most of their population - and they are a tiny country with no domestic manufacturing of the vaccines.

Although Israel quite openly stated they paid a premium to get early access to vaccines. So basically, it was simply a question of commercials, and ponying up the cahs.

Singapore did likewise - basically bought out every vaccine they could on the open market, and rushed to vaccinate their population.

I live in Australia, and it does appear our nation's leaders dragged their feet on the vaccine.

Our Prime Minister even publicly stated "It's not a race", regarding vaccinating the population.

A letter leaked recently, which showed Pfizer's managing director requesting an urgent meeting with our health minister, so we could get millions of doses. Pfizer was then told that the health minister wasn't available to talk with them, it got fobbed to some underlying in his department, then the deal got adragged out for six months after that - in the meantime, the UK and US signed up:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/12/in-hi...

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#112

Post by skybrian »

bserge wrote: post #76
skybrian wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delaying the second dose would have saved lives in other countries too. Many countries were in a desperate situation, including the US. People were dying everywhere. But some countries were too inflexible to do the smart thing, so more people died.

People were dying in hospitals. Old people. Stop with the "durr, people are dying like flies" bs. Enough lives were ruined by that. The young will be paying for this crap for the foreseeable future.

By “everywhere” I meant “all over the world.” This was a worldwide pandemic.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#113

Post by nitrogen »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #105
chroem- wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're trade unionists . Not exactly the type of people I would put at the top of my suspected "nazi fuckwits" list.

Well, perhaps they need to move up your list now. The "anti-lockdown protests" have consistently attracted some very unpleasant kooks, cranks and opportunists, from the "5g mind control" lot to the "international banker conspiracy" lot. It's omni-nutty. Piers Corbyn is a regular at the UK ones. In the US, I am sure that all roads lead to QAnon and their anti-Semitic totalising conspiracy theory. The intensity and nat…

I'm sure all those "kooks, cranks and opportunists" had breakfast, too. Should we start calling French toast a conspiracy? Last year when people (in the US) were protesting, violent protests were called "mostly peaceful" because it was claimed that there was a peaceful majority and an opportunistic minority. Why be so eager to do the opposite now and taint the majority with the odd few?

In other words, someone off the rails agreeing with a large group on one issue doesn't mean the whole group is off the rails.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#114

Post by mthoms »

newsclues wrote: post #89

Canadian government funded media outlet defends the government’s actions. There was a reason people complained about the government’s funding of media.

Sigh. This article is based on scientific evidence. Please leave your politics out of it.

Anyways, the vast majority seem perfectly happy with the CBC.

Fewer than 1 in 5 Canadians want CBC funding decreased: poll https://ipolitics.ca/2019/05/13/nearly-80-of-canadians-want-...

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#115

Post by mthoms »

refurb wrote: post #3

“Bold” strategy? Canada had no option if they wanted to vaccinate quickly. Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. Once it was apparent they couldn’t control the case numbers without vaccines, they took what they could get, prioritized first doses then realized they had different vaccines delivered for 2nd doses. The fact the mixed vaccines gives good protection is more luck than…

>Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines.

The truth is the exact opposite. But don't let that get in the way of a good jab, eh?

Headline from Dec 7, 2020: "Canada has reserved more vaccine doses per person than anywhere". https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canada-has-reserved-more-vaccine...

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#116

Post by mthoms »

victorhooi wrote: post #111
defaultname wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines" Canada was one of the first countries to pre-order vaccines, signing massive agreements with just about every candidate maker. I'm aware of literally a single deal happening with another country prior to Canada's orders. What thwarted Canada's efforts was that the US defacto nationalized the medical establishment in that country, while Cana…

I'm not sure I buy this (about Canada). Israel was one of the first to vaccinate most of their population - and they are a tiny country with no domestic manufacturing of the vaccines. Although Israel quite openly stated they paid a premium to get early access to vaccines. So basically, it was simply a question of commercials, and ponying up the cahs. Singapore did likewise - basically bought out every vaccine they co…

What part don't you buy?

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canada-has-reserved-more-vaccine...

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#117

Post by mthoms »

azernik wrote: post #72
pastage wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they acted faster with more political capital at stake AFAIK, in the end the important part is how free trade countries reacted to the pandemic. There is a lot to say about acting in a way that hinders pandemic compared to making nations feel safe.

Israel is a "free trade country". If you were a rich nation, it was eminently possibly to get early delivery dates written into your contracts. Canada decided not to for some reason (cost?) and in actual fact deeply regretted it.

Source? Most reports indicate that Canada spent more per person than almost everywhere.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#118

Post by mthoms »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #24

Paid off in what exactly? Many of our provincial governments have implemented totalitarian measures despite an insanely high vaccination rate and low death rate - creating a medically segregated society. In one province, the government has given itself vast power to perform warrantless search, confiscate property and conscript any person to the cause of "managing the emergency". Our courts uphold the measures because…

>In one province, the government has given itself vast power to perform warrantless search, confiscate property and conscript any person to the cause of "managing the emergency"

I've not heard of that. Which province?

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#119

Post by mthoms »

roenxi wrote: post #51
coronqueue wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is your data to support your extraordinary claim that "a lot of people have already had COVID and pose a lower risk than someone who is vaccinated"? https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/prior-infection-vs-v... "The CDC researchers found that people previously infected but unvaccinated were 2.34 times more likely to get reinfected than people who were previously infected and fully vaccinated." "The researcher…

Your source is comparing reinfection risk. Reinfection risk is very low [0]. It can't drive a pandemic. And, fairly critically, it is crazy to start isolating people from social life over that low reinfection risk. You've been exposed to people who are unvaccinated for all sort of dangerous diseases through your life and nobody has tried to lock them out of society for that. EDIT I suppose I'll throw in here this isn…

>This is about how to treat people who make choices that the government disagrees with

I hate to tell you this. Putting restrictions on non-vaccinated people is not some Government conspiracy. It's literally what the vast majority of the people of Canada want for their safety. That includes your neighbours and (possibly) your family members.

That's what the government is supposed to do.

Sure, you could make some "tyranny of the majority" argument here but in the case of anti-vaxers, you'll be hard pressed to find any sympathy from most Canadians.

It's not a government conspiracy. It's the will of the people it represents. I know that doesn't make nearly as good a narrative, but it's the hard truth.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#120

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

nitrogen wrote: post #113
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, perhaps they need to move up your list now. The "anti-lockdown protests" have consistently attracted some very unpleasant kooks, cranks and opportunists, from the "5g mind control" lot to the "international banker conspiracy" lot. It's omni-nutty. Piers Corbyn is a regular at the UK ones. In the US, I am sure that all roads lead to QAnon and their anti-Semitic totalising conspiracy theory. The intensity and nat…

I'm sure all those "kooks, cranks and opportunists" had breakfast, too. Should we start calling French toast a conspiracy? Last year when people (in the US) were protesting, violent protests were called "mostly peaceful" because it was claimed that there was a peaceful majority and an opportunistic minority. Why be so eager to do the opposite now and taint the majority with the odd few? In other words, someone off th…

> someone off the rails agreeing with a large group on one issue doesn't mean the whole group is off the rails.

No, it means that the "nazi fuckwits" and "off the rails people" are _recruiting_ and doing so where the audience is worked up and receptive to their radicalisation.

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