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TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

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Re: TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

#131

Post by MathCodeLove »

refenestrator wrote: post #90
quickthrowman wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me pose a pair of questions that might make this easier to understand: -Is the US government currently involved in ethnic cleansing? -Is China currently involved in ethnic cleansing?

The US was killing more central asians than China every year of the last 20 years straight. Hopefully no longer true going forward. So, I guess it comes down to definitions and how you spin things. Personally, I'd say the country that killed more people was doing more bad stuff, but you can bracket things and explain why some 'count' more than others if you want.

> The US was killing more central asians than China every year of the last 20 years straight. Hopefully no longer true going forward.

That's absolutely a fallacious comparison.

1. We don't have accurate data from China on the number imprisoned and killed by them, so no one can make absolutely comparisons like you did.

2. The Chinese do this to people living peacefully inside their borders. If the US started rounding up and killing ethnic minorities WW2 concentration camp style then you could make this comparison. The US was engaged in active conflict with a group that itself was detrimental to human (specifically, women's) rights and that engaged us first.

I dont agree with a lot of what happened in the middle east, but you can't in good fairh stretch that as a comparison to fit your own narrative.

Re: TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

#132

Post by MathCodeLove »

elliebike wrote: post #40
MathCodeLove wrote: post #11

I feel like I'm going crazy. Hasn't TikTok been proven malicious in it's excessive user tracking and data theft? Why does everyone I know still use it? Outside of privacy concerns, doesn't the blackbox algorithm make anyone worry? We're building automated echochambers for an entire population. We're giving a Chinese company the ability to control the content consumption, and therefore beliefs and knowledge, of entire…

It's no different to most other social networks that commit mass abuse of user data and track everyone, everywhere. Being a US-based company doesn't make this any better, just look at Facebook. The only people who worry are people on HN. Most other people aren't aware of what's going on, or just don't care.

Being a US company specifically doesn't make it better, but being a Chinese company absolutely makes it worse.

I wouldn't be nearly as worried if Tiktok were owned by Italy or Germany or France. But China, with it'a ongoing genocide of Muslims and totalitarian oppression, yeah that is worse than Netflix selling your data to advertisers.

Re: TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

#133

Post by refenestrator »

ipaddr wrote: post #128
refenestrator wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's polling numbers on all this. You can check popular approval of imperial wars in the US (it is low), or you can check Chinese approval of their government (it is high).

Approval of their government compared to what? What is the alternative? Chaos? In a democracy you have many parties and points of view which would naturally lead to lower popularity as it spreads over many ideas. Each takes turns and this system renews ideas.

You ever see that photo of the bund in Shanghai in 1990 and then in 2010?

Why is it so hard to believe people are happy with this?

Re: TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

#134

Post by refenestrator »

MathCodeLove wrote: post #131
refenestrator wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US was killing more central asians than China every year of the last 20 years straight. Hopefully no longer true going forward. So, I guess it comes down to definitions and how you spin things. Personally, I'd say the country that killed more people was doing more bad stuff, but you can bracket things and explain why some 'count' more than others if you want.

> The US was killing more central asians than China every year of the last 20 years straight. Hopefully no longer true going forward. That's absolutely a fallacious comparison. 1. We don't have accurate data from China on the number imprisoned and killed by them, so no one can make absolutely comparisons like you did. 2. The Chinese do this to people living peacefully inside their borders. If the US started rounding…

There's those qualifications and spin I was asking for.

China is bringing economic development, secular institutions and women's rights, in a heavy handed way, whether the residents want it or not, with minimal regard for costs to those residents. It's the exact same thing as we've been doing, minus a fig leaf of democracy.

In neither case is the word genocide or ethnic cleansing appropriate, body counts don't support it. But it's especially rich to level the accusation 5 seconds after our 20 year war ended.

Re: TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

#135

Post by MathCodeLove »

refenestrator wrote: post #124
MathCodeLove wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the extremely reputable self-reporting from Chinese citizens, who absolutely have no fear for their safety should they say the wrong thing. Of course the Chinese love the CCP, they all say so!

Go talk to some Chinese people, then, do your own research. Just don't call them brainwashed while uncritically swallowing a story about how we're all free and they're all oppressed, no matter what they say about it.

Hmm maybe once China decides to get rid of it's Muslim concentration camps I'll take a visit and ask around. Until then, it's pretty clear to me which government is objectively worse.

Re: TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

#136

Post by BiteCode_dev »

MathCodeLove wrote: post #127
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Frenchmen, Youtube is exactly the same: - algo is a black box, and uncalibrated youtube makes my eyes bleed; - own by the biggest spy on the planet, google, known for manipulating information, monopolistic behavior, participation in the worst gov programs (e.g: PRISM); - impose American censorship rules to the entire world, and makes creators do inane cuts to fit some terrible metrics Besides, the typical Tik To…

I see where you're coming from, but Youtube isn't nearly as opaque as Tiktok. You can actually search for videos on youtube, typically content is longer and has a higher production quality which reduces probability of doom-scrolling. As someone else mentioned, TikTok is intentionally designed to be addictive and gamified, much more so that youtube or facebook. And, objectively speaking, the US government is far prefe…

> The US government only accesses it if they have a reason to do so and subpoena the specific information needed

As Snowden revelations have shown, this is not the case.

> It wouldn't be hard for them to subtly start slipping in propaganda into the tiktok feeds of countries they intend to invade

Last time I checked, the USA were the number one warmonger in the world, sometimes by lying about WMD and going against the vote of the UN.

I'm not defending China, I do think Tiktok is a dictatorship honeypot, but the USA is only good to the USA. A cancer is worst than diabetes, but I still don't think diabetes is a good thing.

And google is only good to google.

I'm in the good graces of neither, being in Europe, and consider both as services that will try to get as much of me as possible when I use them. And the minute our interest are not aligned with theirs, they will bite us.

Re: TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

#137

Post by Rd6n6 »

wutbrodo wrote: post #130
Rd6n6 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mental health discussions and advice are traditionally given under strong privacy guarantees

You've mixed together two-way (discussion) and one-way (advice) mental health communication. Your point only applies to discussion, and the tiktok example only involves advice. Concretely, what privacy concern do you see in watching a video with mental health tips? Do you think this privacy concern similarly extends to reading a Wikipedia article on (eg) CBT techniques? Or am I misunderstanding, and "Mental health ti…

It’s 2 way. The tracking and profiling algorithms infer a lot by watching people. The viewers might not realize it’s two way though

Re: TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

#138

Post by refenestrator »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #136
MathCodeLove wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from, but Youtube isn't nearly as opaque as Tiktok. You can actually search for videos on youtube, typically content is longer and has a higher production quality which reduces probability of doom-scrolling. As someone else mentioned, TikTok is intentionally designed to be addictive and gamified, much more so that youtube or facebook. And, objectively speaking, the US government is far prefe…

> The US government only accesses it if they have a reason to do so and subpoena the specific information needed As Snowden revelations have shown, this is not the case. > It wouldn't be hard for them to subtly start slipping in propaganda into the tiktok feeds of countries they intend to invade Last time I checked, the USA were the number one warmonger in the world, sometimes by lying about WMD and going against the…

Fun fact, if you are not a US citizen, you have no 4th amendment rights against seizure of your data. No judge or legal process necessary beyond a blanket executive order.

Re: TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

#139

Post by 28433552 »

wutbrodo wrote: post #109
28433552 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stepped back from a group chat because the fellows in it swore by “Mental Health TikTok,” where therapists give mental health advice. This is concerning to me. Beyond that, the data collection and the way it mixes young-but-of-age mildly sexual content with underage guys imitating them makes me stay far away. I enjoyed the handsome men in various states of undress but couldn’t find a way to make the app not veer in…

> I stepped back from a group chat because the fellows in it swore by “Mental Health TikTok,” where therapists give mental health advice. This is concerning to me What's concerning about this? I don't mean this rhetorically: I'm genuinely curious, as I've heard people say similar things recently. It seems to me that, like metabolic health, there's a pretty large body of basic mental health advice that's safe and salu…

It was apparent in the group chat I was in that these guys were replacing heavy-duty mental healthcare with tips provided by unverified sources on TikTok. A chat where we went to vent about our frustrations turned into peer-to-peer mental health diagnosis informed by these TikTok doctors, telephoned through these regular, non-doctor participants.

It struck me as the kind of thing that leads people to, for example, ingeste chloroquine phosphate [0] on the advice of a celebrity.

[0]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/24/coronavirus-cu...

Re: TikTok overtakes YouTube for average watch time in US and UK

#140

Post by simiones »

tarkin2 wrote: post #112
simiones wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the previous election was heavily influenced by a foreign government using American social media networks to influence. Heavily influenced is a massive overstatement. Russia spent less money on US election influence than most individual mega-churches.

You’ve found those figures from the transparent and independent Russian statistics department giving the figures in roubles?

From Wikipedia[0], quoting the Mueller report:

> The Mueller report detailed that the IRA spent $100,000 for over 3,500 Facebook advertisements, which included anti-Clinton and pro-Trump advertisements.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report#Social_media_ca...

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