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Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

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Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#131

Post by DanBC »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #86
BoxOfRain wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because the term "commit suicide" implies a moral judgement, in the past Western notions of suicide were actually pretty barbaric. To accuse someone of trying to commit suicide would have been a fairly serious accusation, in fact in the past in some jurisdictions suicide could mean that your estate went to the government instead of your family as suicide was seen as an offence against God and the Crown.…

Suicide is ultimately executed by an individual who makes the choice to do so. Obfuscating or minimizing that fact and refusing to shame it will remove social pressure preventing and dissuading that act. Shame and fear of my father finding my body is what prevented me from doing it years ago.

Everybody who works in suicide prevention disagrees with you.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#132

Post by JuliusPullo »

neartheplain wrote: post #57
ALittleLight wrote: post #27

From a little light Googling I don't see that any police officers connected to the 100+ nights of rioting and protests in Portland killed themselves. Why would one event result in so many suicides while the other didn't?

The police in Portland were never overrun. Over the course of those 100+ nights they maintained discipline, held their secure perimeters, and succeeded in their mission to keep rioters from breaching e.g. the federal courthouse or their station buildings. In contrast, officers at the Capitol were completely overrun, isolated, and brutally beaten by the mob without hope or expectation of rescue. Some have said that wh…

I'm hearing violins reading this.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#133

Post by taylodl »

ALittleLight wrote: post #27

From a little light Googling I don't see that any police officers connected to the 100+ nights of rioting and protests in Portland killed themselves. Why would one event result in so many suicides while the other didn't?

That, my friend, is the primary difference between protest and insurrection. Protestors are trying to get their voices heard by the system, insurrectionists are trying to thwart the system itself.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#134

Post by okamiueru »

legostormtroopr wrote: post #101
okamiueru wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the list of examples, only the Portland grafitti suggesting cops be killed seems valid to me. Defunding police is something I'd assume cops could be very much for, assuming they understand the intention behind. It's isn't a "let's get rid of police" as much as it is "let's reduce the scope of police responsibility". This way, people who might have a mental or drug problem are met by health care professionals, ra…

A motto you have to explain is a bad motto. To a police officer "Defund the police" sounds a lot like "unemployment".

I think it is mostly hindered by an unwillingness to listen and/or understand, and not that it requires explanation (which, in of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing... explaining things to people seems par for the course when misinformation is high).

If I'm well aware what it means by just following international news, while also not having the affected profession, and living on the other side of the world... you would think the onus should fall sliiiightly on the people directly involved for not understanding the motto, rather than it being a bad or convoluted one.

The inspection required to understand it also doesn't do a whole lot of leaps either. "Defund the police!". "What, like completely?", "Nah, that would be insane. Just the part where they need to deal with shit they shouldn't be dealing with". "Ah, ok.".

That said, I'm sure there are some who mean "fully". Probably a smaller percentage of people meaning it than people assuming others mean it.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#135

Post by horrified »

yetihehe wrote: post #31
horrified wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it is not what you said. What point were you trying to make?

He says where violence comes from. It's not justifying violence, it's saying why it exists and what area should be looked in for solution.

But how does that fit in the context of a person committing suicide, in response to someone mentioning harassment from BLM? Sure you can discuss why people get angry, but in this context it sounds like victim blaming to me.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#136

Post by Robelius »

BackBlast wrote: post #130
neartheplain wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police in Portland were never overrun. Over the course of those 100+ nights they maintained discipline, held their secure perimeters, and succeeded in their mission to keep rioters from breaching e.g. the federal courthouse or their station buildings. In contrast, officers at the Capitol were completely overrun, isolated, and brutally beaten by the mob without hope or expectation of rescue. Some have said that wh…

An event that only lasted a couple of hours is so much more dramatic than months long riots with the leadership throwing police line officers under the bus? Sufficiently so that there's literally an epidemic of suicides? I'm not buying it.

Just look at the suicides if you aren't buying it....I won't pretend to know what those officers experienced. But when officers are saying they view the actions of their leaders as disgraceful, and talk about a feeling of abandonment, then just maybe we should believe what they say? Or continue to ignore their complaints.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#137

Post by _y5hn »

dandanua wrote: post #129
krapp wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First order of the day was a new election that was everything but democratic, so. We're seeing the groundwork for this being laid by various states passing "reforms" on voting intended to prevent another "fraudulent election" from taking place (intended to both normalize the narrative that such a fraud occurred and legitimize it when it occurs in the Trumpists' favor under these reforms) and attempts to repeal Sect…

It's the normal people who think that Trump has failed. The world of savages can see this differently. Who else was able to attack the Capitol and survive two impeachments? Who else was able to f*ck the US political system so hard? How he has failed if he is enjoying the life after all that (while others are committing suicides)? He is a very decent chieftain for them.

They just don't want to touch the former president role. You can only lose and face destruction with people like that. It's about dragging down everyone. To be even loved for their demise, is just top of dominion.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#138

Post by netizen-936824 »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #104
netizen-936824 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as a "hard" or "heavy" drug. These terms are not in pharmacological literature and are not defined by any property of the chemical or their pharmacological action.

Nevertheless it is rather easy to tell them apart. Hard drugs quickly cause heavy addiction in almost everybody who tries them, destroy their health and can even kill them easily. Psilocybin does not, it can actually be used to improve neural health and cure addictions (just search it here on HN, there are many papers to reference). There are things which are hard to define precisely nevertheless easy to distinguish…

I guess we can consider alcohol a hard drug then. Time to make it illegal? I don't know anybody who uses it responsibly, therefore those people don't exist right?

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#139

Post by BackBlast »

Robelius wrote: post #136
BackBlast wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An event that only lasted a couple of hours is so much more dramatic than months long riots with the leadership throwing police line officers under the bus? Sufficiently so that there's literally an epidemic of suicides? I'm not buying it.

Just look at the suicides if you aren't buying it....I won't pretend to know what those officers experienced. But when officers are saying they view the actions of their leaders as disgraceful, and talk about a feeling of abandonment, then just maybe we should believe what they say? Or continue to ignore their complaints.

Leader abandonment is hardly unique to that job. The conclusion of many Portland and similar officers was to retire, change job types, or change job locations - not suicide.

When facts don't add up I tend to conclude that there either are missing facts or some of the purported facts aren't actually facts.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#140

Post by horrified »

myWindoonn wrote: post #114
Leparamour wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He says where violence comes from. They do not in fact. They insinuate that police is arresting blacks as a modern sequel to slavery. That's a complete reversal of cause and effect. Blacks are disproportionally targeted because they're committing criminal acts at disproportionally higher levels compared to every other "marginalized" minority. There's a reason the 13/50 trope exists for blacks and not for Asians.

By what mechanism, exactly, does this occur? What causes different races to commit crimes at different rates? It can't be genetic, since there's not actually any genetic markers which distinguish races (race is an illusion); so, what caused it? The standard historical answer is that our society caused it, not just with slavery, but with redlining, ghettos, and voter suppression.

When you are about to get mugged or murdered, it doesn't matter what caused it. You just don't want to be murdered. I can feel pity with people whose life circumstances turned them into criminals, but I have no immediate way to help them and I still don't want them to murder me.

Black people are also a part of society, they are not just passive participants, by the way.

I have read a bit about the situation in the UK, and it seems a major problem is gang culture. The "stop and search" strategy is actually a measure against gang activity, not simply a racist pastime. Whether it is the best approach can be discussed, but people should come up with better strategies to prevent gang crimes and people growing up to be drafted into gangs, not simply cry "racism".

Maybe "white people" somehow caused gang culture to appear (maybe!), but now that it exists, it is not so simple to get rid off, and imo also too simplistic to say "white people are to blame, so they should fix it". There are a zillion problems in the world. Even white people were not put on earth with silver spoons in their mouths. If you see a problem you care about, work on improving it. Blaming white people does nothing (except harm).

I think there are more black people in the US than people live in Switzerland, for example. If everything else is so racist, they could work together and build their own black subcountry with better services. Like they could offer health care to their black peers. No need to wait for white people to provide it.

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